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TUI editor and Vim/Neovim alternative
- xmonkee 2y agonice, V lang. How come I don't hear about this as much as zyg/odin/jai etc?
- dharmab 2y agoV is pre-1.0, and you have to install it by compiling it from source. I'm very excited about V. It's the language I wish Go was.
- devnull3 2y agoI don't know V but mostly what I have read about V is that it is vaporware [1]. Is there truth to this impression? [1] https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&channel=entpr&q=vlang+vaporware https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&channel=ent...
- dharmab 2y agoGo look at the commit log and tell me if it looks like abandonware.
- tcmart14 2y agoThey said vaporware, which isn't necessarily the same thing as abandonware. It still could be vaporware if it never lives up to delivering what it promised. I'm not sure on the current state of those promises though, so I don't know if the outlook of it being vaporware is true anymore. At one point it looked like it, but I haven't kept up with it enough.
- tauraamui 2y agoThis is a good POV. For a while there they did think they had a chance at finally figuring out how to solve the halting problem. They of course haven't, and had no chance to do so, but they wanted to discover that for sure, for themselves. So I admire them for trying. These days autofree handles about 95% of allocations, but what's left dangling is pruned by their very low cost tight cleanup looped GC. If you really need to you can do manual memory management, from my fairly substantial usage of the language so far I've been a satisfied customer for sure. I've found compiler bugs, strange behaviour, edge cases etc., yes the team are blunt and to the point, but they're the most professional language team I've ever interacted with, often responding within hours, one time a compiler fix was released the next day.
- amedvednikov 2y agoEverything that's listed on the home page is delivered.
- fayten 2y agoI have seen this thrown around a lot, but I do not think it is true anymore. V lang had a rough launch from what I can tell, with the author overselling and mistakenly underestimating the amount of work needed to fulfill their vision. V still has a ways to go, but it is in constant heavy development with lots of contributors. It also has a wide gambit of interesting hobby projects using it. I'd recommend taking a look at the the examples here:https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/examples https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/examples I think the language has a lot of potential.
- imiric 2y agoV has good ideas on paper, but most of its claimed features are aspirational. Actually using it for any real world project is an exercise in frustration and confusion, since you're never sure if the weird behavior is intentional or a bug. The documentation is outdated, missing or wrong. The implementation is a mess, even in its pre-1.0 state. Most projects written in it[1] are either demos or abandonware. Much has been discussed about it, and every few years someone writes a "V Language Review" with the same findings. I gave it a try a few months ago and ran into many of the same issues. I'd stay away, and stick with Go, or Zig, Odin or Nim if you're interested in similar alternatives. [1]: https://github.com/vlang/awesome-v https://github.com/vlang/awesome-v
- amedvednikov 2y agoCan you list any weird behavior/bugs that lead to frustration and confusion? And examples of the documentation being outdated/wrong?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- imiric 2y agoOh, hello again. :) I have no desire to get into a discussion. You can find plenty of details in feedback from people who have given your language a try over the years. Here's a blog post from September 2024[1]. A quick glance at the open issues yields [2], and many others if you search for "immutable". To be fair, open issues are a sign of interest and people wanting to move the project forward, which is good. I think what you're trying to achieve is commendable, and I truly wish a language as you envisioned it existed. But it's really hard to take the project seriously when one of its core features is not well defined and causes confusion after 5 years of existence. I remember running into similar issues when I tried it last year, but just didn't bother to document or report any of it. You can assume that for every person who creates an issue, there are 10x that amount who don't bother and move on. [1]: https://justinas.org/the-bizarre-world-of-v https://justinas.org/the-bizarre-world-of-v [2]: https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/23509 https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/23509
- amedvednikov 2y agoThere are prebuilt packages you can install from the home page and from the github repo. For example https://github.com/vlang/v/releases/latest/download/v_linux.zip https://github.com/vlang/v/releases/latest/download/v_linux....
- dharmab 2y agoOh, I didn't see it in Homebrew, so I searched for "install V" and found the documentation which only has compiling from source.
- amedvednikov 2y agoGood point. I'll add the homebrew installation method. Maybe some other popular package managers. V is very easy to install from source and to bootstrap. And it changes fast. So we're not big fans of package managers yet.
- johnisgood 2y agoThere has been drama about V and its creator perhaps? I do not remember what exactly. Could anyone remind me what it was all about? Oh, the vaporware thing? BTW I checked the Patreon page. It says "V 1.0 release is planned for 2020". Might want to change that. :D
- square_usual 2y agoV overpromised and underdelivered, and the creator is pretty abrasive and went to war with anyone who criticized it, so most people stopped paying attention to it until it fulfills what was promised.
- baranul 2y agoIt would be fair to say that many would disagree or have different opinions about the language and the creator. V's creator has an open discussion for criticism[1], which many other languages don't have. After reading various related threads, the strange abrasiveness and negativity often seems to be from others, not the other way around. Clearly, many people are paying attention to V. It is quite popular at GitHub with over 36.2k stars, 2.2k forks, and 775 contributors. [1] https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610 https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610
- hiccuphippo 2y agoI remember looking at their code years ago and the network library was calling the curl cli. I didn't pay attention to it since then.
- amedvednikov 2y agoThe network library doesn't use curl: https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net https://github.com/vlang/v/tree/master/vlib/net
- tauraamui 2y agoThey said years ago, when they last took a look. Just a thought, maybe just let all this go, people are complicated, you'll never please everyone. It's not worth the time trying. If anything you're giving them more ammo to prove them right about your attitude to negative takes. I'm not taking sides, just my opinion! :)
- pmarreck 2y agokeep looking and you’ll see why. chaotic-neutral dictator/chief dev categorizes any criticism (regardless of merit) as trolling and bans; language design far exceeds technical merit of implementation details; basically, things only look good on paper, but fall apart once you get past the shallow end of the pool. I went to Nim instead for similar use-cases.
- amedvednikov 2y agoHm V literally has a big discussion called "What don't you like about V / what would you like to be changed?" https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610 https://github.com/vlang/v/discussions/7610 What exactly do you think only looks good on paper?
- tauraamui 2y agoSo it begins...
- pmarreck 2y agohttps://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d0757 https://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d07... I have a toddler demanding 99% of my free time so I apologize in advance for the LLM shortcut but this looks correct based on my experience
- tauraamui 2y agoI've been finding it perfectly suitable for this and other projects. Have you updated your point of view after recently attempting to write and profile a non trivial program?
- pmarreck 2y agohttps://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d0757 https://chatgpt.com/share/67e29912-bc64-8004-be75-3d0df11d07... I have a toddler demanding 99% of my free time so I apologize in advance for the LLM shortcut but this looks correct based on my experience
- bsnnkv 2y agoI have had some positive interactions with the author in the past and did a little Lilly / NixOS / V crossover video a while ago.[1] It's nice to see this project posted here and that it's still making steady progress! [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR0C76I59AI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR0C76I59AI
- princevegeta89 2y agoHave been using Micro wherever possible and I'm happy that I can simply forget all the vim and vi commands without a worry.
- mvp0999 2y agothere's no alternative for nvim, nvim is superior !
- Imustaskforhelp 2y agoI disagree because you just provide no context and it feels rage bait
- square_usual 2y agoThe AI generated README isn't really selling me, but I guess the point is that it's like helix but with standard vim keybinds?
- tauraamui 2y agoYes pretty much. Admittedly that's all the README needs to say. When I first wrote the project README LLMs were still relatively new for public use, it was much harder to detect back then. Thanks for the feedback.
- tauraamui 2y agoThank you everyone for commenting and sharing your thoughts regarding my project! I'm aware of the history of V and it's less than stellar reputation in the beginning. I really hope this comment section doesn't devolve into yet another stream of people regurgitating blog posts from over 5 years ago. I evaluate languages and their suitability for projects by just my personal experience using them. Does it do what I need, and does it do it now? That's it.
- pwdisswordfishz 2y ago[flagged]
- baranul 2y agoGreat project. Something else, that needs to be said, is that you should not allow others to make you feel ashamed for using programming languages that you like. No reason to succumb to others who are trying to force switching to what they are pushing. It's your project and your time, not theirs.
- tauraamui 2y agoI certainly did feel some of that in the past, but not anymore. I started using V for this project fully expecting it to go wrong, experience no end of issues, bugs, memory weirdness, edge cases etc., based on the many articles targeting V. But like with everything, I also tried to stay as objective and unbiased as possible, and that just... Never happened. If anything as my experience and exposure with the language increased, so did my enjoyment, and confidence that V was just the right choice for the project, and for me. I'm in a weird position, where I have no personal bias or stake towards V, I just like using it, but I frequently get attacked or questioned for making a choice that people find offensive or incomprehensible. It's almost like they see my not choosing something they like, like Rust, or Zig, etc., is my way of attacking them for choosing it for their own projects. No, not at all. In my opinion, the more languages that exist the better, the better the range of choice. This isn't a war guys, holy or otherwise. Let's just try and stay in our lane. There is work to do, we just need to get it done.
- nickandbro 2y agoIf anyone's interested in learning vim fundamentals, right now I am building vimgolf.ai which is a site where you can linearly learn new vim motions by trying to beat a bot's score.
- osmsucks 2y agoHaven't tried it, but it looks nice. Well done to the authors. Reminds me of Flow Control (https://flow-control.dev/ https://flow-control.dev/), which is really nice and comfortable to use! It looks and feels more mature than a 0.x release.
- tauraamui 2y agoHaven't heard of this, thanks! I'll definitely be taking a peak at their buffer implementation. Zig was a no go for this project for me due to the lack of concurrency.
- attentive 2y agozig worked for https://ghostty.org/ https://ghostty.org/
- tauraamui 2y agoI'm happy for them :)
- attentive 2y agoI'm not familiar with zig but was surprised by the claim that it lacks concurrency. Looking into it, it seems to have Async/Await, std.threads and channels.
- tauraamui 2y agoIt's in the docs but apparently doesn't work/isn't there any more. https://ziggit.dev/t/my-thoughts-about-async/4515 https://ziggit.dev/t/my-thoughts-about-async/4515
- layer8 2y agoMaybe replace “Inclusive Functionality” by something like “Batteries Included”. I had to do a double-take. ;)
- tauraamui 2y agoThanks.