7 ms·

I think depending on what you've built your identity around, suddenly being free of having to strive for anything can be pretty daunting. "Having everything we

by mckirk 2y ago

I think depending on what you've built your identity around, suddenly being free of having to strive for anything can be pretty daunting. "Having everything we need, indefinitely" is certainly not something we were prepared for by evolution, and the questions that arise when you are at that point and still need to structure your life around something don't really have easy answers, I believe. So it might actually be a pretty good sign that you struggle to sympathize with this, because the alternative might be that you understand it all too well.

pferde 2y ago
I can't imagine how anyone could even achieve such state. There will always be that skill I do not yet have, that book I haven't read yet, that hobby I haven't tried yet, that place I haven't yet traveled to, etc. etc. Maybe if I get to have an active life of 300 years, I could maybe imagine starting to get closer to "having everything I need".
- kdfjgbdfkjgb 2y ago
  wants vs needs
  - pferde 2y ago
    No, all of those are needs. Some of them are merely a bit higher on the Maslow's hierarchy.
- Swizec 2y ago
  > I can't imagine how anyone could even achieve such state. There will always be that skill I do not yet have, that book I haven't read yet, that hobby I haven't tried yet, that place I haven't yet traveled to, etc. etc. I can imagine it. After sidehustling and grinding hard for ~10 years, I realized one day that my savings make more in annual interest than my sidehustle brings in revenue. Not profit, revenue. After a bit of math I realized that if I just do nothing unusual – go to work, keep my savings rate – I’ll have the option to retire in 3 to 4 years. The big thing I was pouring my heart, soul, and mind into for so long suddenly feels small and meaningless. Like what is even the point? The sidehustle became more of a hobby. It’s enjoyable but the drive isn’t quite there. The things that used to feel like a big deal make me yawn. So I try to work on bigger more impactful things. But these take longer and so there’s less of that regular dopamine hit of overcoming challenges. And even if ultimately they don’t succeed, oh well not too big a deal. So they just feel less of a pressing issue. The ultimate feeling is one of aimless ambition. I want to do and achieve, but wherefore all the effort when chilling brings almost the same result?
  - VyseofArcadia 2y ago
    > The ultimate feeling is one of aimless ambition. I want to do and achieve, but wherefore all the effort when chilling brings almost the same result? Surely you have more you want to do and achieve than just that one side hustle? Have you never wanted to write a novel? Learn a musical instrument? A language? How to speedrun your favorite video game? Contribute to open source? Plant a vegetable garden? There is so, so much to do, and instead I spend all my time working to keep a roof over my head.
    - Swizec 2y ago
      Yes there is lots to do! And I’m working on it all. But it doesn’t hit the same as when success felt like life or death. My actual needs are met. The rest is gravy. It helps that my dayjob feels like the most effective vehicle for big ambitions. This was a specific thing I optimized for when looking. It doesn’t feel like a necessity or distraction, it’s the thing I want to be doing.
      - hn_acc1 2y ago
        I mean, I'll gladly take most of your savings, to the point you're back to struggling and feeling like every small win is life or death.. :-)
      - fourthark 2y ago
        So... you're fine?
    - wnolens 2y ago
      Purely selfish pursuits lose their allure when you have the ability to just do them (once the initial rush of being able to do them runs out). At least they did for me.
      - chongli 2y ago
        Volunteering is the answer to this! Work directly with people in need and give something back to your community.
- mckirk 2y ago
  Of course, there is always something to do. But once you have reached the point where 'participation in anything is voluntary' and you don't have the necessity of work to show you the value of leisure time, I guess you need to come up with new reasons that make existence worthwhile purely for the sake of existing itself. (Which is not to say that you weren't facing the same existential questions before, but 'the grind' is a very good way to keep yourself occupied and not ponder these things too closely, I suppose.) And there definitely are good reasons that make existence worthwhile for its own sake, like using your freedom for discovery and mastery as you said, but unfortunately depression has the nasty side-effect of robbing you of the joy you could find in those causes, and the energy to pursue them.

by mckirk 2y ago

pferde 2y ago

I can't imagine how anyone could even achieve such state. There will always be that skill I do not yet have, that book I haven't read yet, that hobby I haven't tried yet, that place I haven't yet traveled to, etc. etc. Maybe if I get to have an active life of 300 years, I could maybe imagine starting to get closer to "having everything I need".

kdfjgbdfkjgb 2y ago
wants vs needs
- pferde 2y ago
  No, all of those are needs. Some of them are merely a bit higher on the Maslow's hierarchy.
Swizec 2y ago
> I can't imagine how anyone could even achieve such state. There will always be that skill I do not yet have, that book I haven't read yet, that hobby I haven't tried yet, that place I haven't yet traveled to, etc. etc. I can imagine it. After sidehustling and grinding hard for ~10 years, I realized one day that my savings make more in annual interest than my sidehustle brings in revenue. Not profit, revenue. After a bit of math I realized that if I just do nothing unusual – go to work, keep my savings rate – I’ll have the option to retire in 3 to 4 years. The big thing I was pouring my heart, soul, and mind into for so long suddenly feels small and meaningless. Like what is even the point? The sidehustle became more of a hobby. It’s enjoyable but the drive isn’t quite there. The things that used to feel like a big deal make me yawn. So I try to work on bigger more impactful things. But these take longer and so there’s less of that regular dopamine hit of overcoming challenges. And even if ultimately they don’t succeed, oh well not too big a deal. So they just feel less of a pressing issue. The ultimate feeling is one of aimless ambition. I want to do and achieve, but wherefore all the effort when chilling brings almost the same result?
- VyseofArcadia 2y ago
  > The ultimate feeling is one of aimless ambition. I want to do and achieve, but wherefore all the effort when chilling brings almost the same result? Surely you have more you want to do and achieve than just that one side hustle? Have you never wanted to write a novel? Learn a musical instrument? A language? How to speedrun your favorite video game? Contribute to open source? Plant a vegetable garden? There is so, so much to do, and instead I spend all my time working to keep a roof over my head.
  - Swizec 2y ago
    Yes there is lots to do! And I’m working on it all. But it doesn’t hit the same as when success felt like life or death. My actual needs are met. The rest is gravy. It helps that my dayjob feels like the most effective vehicle for big ambitions. This was a specific thing I optimized for when looking. It doesn’t feel like a necessity or distraction, it’s the thing I want to be doing.
    - hn_acc1 2y ago
      I mean, I'll gladly take most of your savings, to the point you're back to struggling and feeling like every small win is life or death.. :-)
    - fourthark 2y ago
      So... you're fine?
  - wnolens 2y ago
    Purely selfish pursuits lose their allure when you have the ability to just do them (once the initial rush of being able to do them runs out). At least they did for me.
    - chongli 2y ago
      Volunteering is the answer to this! Work directly with people in need and give something back to your community.
mckirk 2y ago
Of course, there is always something to do. But once you have reached the point where 'participation in anything is voluntary' and you don't have the necessity of work to show you the value of leisure time, I guess you need to come up with new reasons that make existence worthwhile purely for the sake of existing itself. (Which is not to say that you weren't facing the same existential questions before, but 'the grind' is a very good way to keep yourself occupied and not ponder these things too closely, I suppose.) And there definitely are good reasons that make existence worthwhile for its own sake, like using your freedom for discovery and mastery as you said, but unfortunately depression has the nasty side-effect of robbing you of the joy you could find in those causes, and the energy to pursue them.