5 ms·

Lilienthal flew with gliders. The Wright brothers claim the first powered flight (i.e. an airplane).

adrian_b 2y ago
The Wright brothers have invented many components of an airplane, which made powered flight possible, but it seems inappropriate to say that they have invented an "airplane". The idea of making an "airplane", with fixed wings and with screw propellers, had been widespread for most of the second half of the 19th century, and it had been discussed in countless publications and in "heavier-than-air" flight clubs. However, before the Wright brothers, nobody had succeeded to build such an airplane that actually worked, the main reason being the lack of an appropriate system of aircraft controls, like that conceived by the Wright brothers. The patent obtained by the Wright brothers, is formulated very well and of course it does not claim to have invented any new kind of flying machine, but it claims certain new and useful improvements in flying machines of the airplane kind (most of which refer to the aircraft control surfaces).
- clippyplz 2y ago
  If they are the first to build an airplane that "actually worked", then why would it be inappropriate to say they invented an airplane? It wouldn't be appropriate to say "they were responsible for 100% of the technological development and research that led to this machine" but if that's what "invented" means then nobody has ever invented anything.
  - adrian_b 2y ago
    Their invention patent (US 821,393) correctly claims the invention of a 3-axis airplane orientation control system, not the invention of the airplane, which is treated as a well-known class of flying-machines, which is improved by their invention. An airplane without good aircraft controls could start to fly without problems, but it would normally crash sooner or later, either due to flight instabilities or because it had to eventually land somewhere.
  - xandrius 2y ago
    Say, if I invent everything to make a bike work but the wheels just happen to be a teeny tiny too small to actually allow someone to ride it uninterrupted. You come and adjust them. Did you just invent the bike? Or did you build upon my previous invention(s) and perfected it, making us both partial inventors?
    - mannykannot 2y ago
      You only get partial credit unless you figured out what, precisely, needed to be done, but had someone else do it for you.
  - nyeah 2y ago
    'if that's what "invented" means then nobody has ever invented anything.' People invent things. But "airplane" turned out to be much more than one thing. Not all of them were invented by Curtiss (a local favorite), or by Santos-Dumont, or by Lilienthal, Caproni, the Wrights, or whoever.
  - nyeah 2y ago
    Not really disagreeing, but history and technology are both messy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_the_first_airplane_flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_the_first_airplane_f...
- Zak 2y ago
  I think it's fair to say someone invented a thing if they design and build the first one that actually works. The concept of an airplane had been around for a while by 1903, but nobody had one. Similarly today we have the concept of a warp drive. We even have that concept outside the realm of science fiction now, but we're far from having a working prototype and don't even know if a practical example can be built. It's also fair to debate what qualifies as an airplane. If I were to list criteria, I would include two that the first Wright Flyer did not demonstrate: the ability to take off from level ground under its own power, and sufficient maneuverability to return to and land at the point of departure.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    The 1903 did take off under its own power. The catapult came later.
    - Zak 2y ago
      I had the impression it took off downhill for that flight, failing my criterion, but it actually took off from level ground with a strong headwind. I'll give it partial credit; I don't think its rail would have been long enough in calm wind.
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        Fun fact: all airplanes take off into the wind as much as possible.
        Zak 2y ago
        I know, but any practical airplane can take off in calm wind from level ground. The first Wright Flyer required a strong headwind or downhill angle.
        WalterBright 2y ago
        The Flyer was on a rail with a wheeled cart. The fact that it moved forward under its own power (faster than Orville could run) demonstrated that it could take off in a calm, just that the rail would have had to be longer. Their experiments with it ended when a gust flipped it on the ground and broke it beyond repair.
- some_random 2y ago
  If someone came forward with a perpetual motion machine that allowed for infinite energy, no one would argue that they didn't invent it even though generations of cranks have come up with similar ideas. For any non-hacked definition of airplane, the Wright Brothers invented the airplane, they were the first ones to put all the pieces together for powered flight then actually go and do it.

The Wright brothers have invented many components of an airplane, which made powered flight possible, but it seems inappropriate to say that they have invented an "airplane". The idea of making an "airplane", with fixed wings and with screw propellers, had been widespread for most of the second half of the 19th century, and it had been discussed in countless publications and in "heavier-than-air" flight clubs. However, before the Wright brothers, nobody had succeeded to build such an airplane that actually worked, the main reason being the lack of an appropriate system of aircraft controls, like that conceived by the Wright brothers. The patent obtained by the Wright brothers, is formulated very well and of course it does not claim to have invented any new kind of flying machine, but it claims certain new and useful improvements in flying machines of the airplane kind (most of which refer to the aircraft control surfaces).

clippyplz 2y ago
If they are the first to build an airplane that "actually worked", then why would it be inappropriate to say they invented an airplane? It wouldn't be appropriate to say "they were responsible for 100% of the technological development and research that led to this machine" but if that's what "invented" means then nobody has ever invented anything.
- adrian_b 2y ago
  Their invention patent (US 821,393) correctly claims the invention of a 3-axis airplane orientation control system, not the invention of the airplane, which is treated as a well-known class of flying-machines, which is improved by their invention. An airplane without good aircraft controls could start to fly without problems, but it would normally crash sooner or later, either due to flight instabilities or because it had to eventually land somewhere.
- xandrius 2y ago
  Say, if I invent everything to make a bike work but the wheels just happen to be a teeny tiny too small to actually allow someone to ride it uninterrupted. You come and adjust them. Did you just invent the bike? Or did you build upon my previous invention(s) and perfected it, making us both partial inventors?
  - mannykannot 2y ago
    You only get partial credit unless you figured out what, precisely, needed to be done, but had someone else do it for you.
- nyeah 2y ago
  'if that's what "invented" means then nobody has ever invented anything.' People invent things. But "airplane" turned out to be much more than one thing. Not all of them were invented by Curtiss (a local favorite), or by Santos-Dumont, or by Lilienthal, Caproni, the Wrights, or whoever.
- nyeah 2y ago
  Not really disagreeing, but history and technology are both messy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_the_first_airplane_flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_the_first_airplane_f...
Zak 2y ago
I think it's fair to say someone invented a thing if they design and build the first one that actually works. The concept of an airplane had been around for a while by 1903, but nobody had one. Similarly today we have the concept of a warp drive. We even have that concept outside the realm of science fiction now, but we're far from having a working prototype and don't even know if a practical example can be built. It's also fair to debate what qualifies as an airplane. If I were to list criteria, I would include two that the first Wright Flyer did not demonstrate: the ability to take off from level ground under its own power, and sufficient maneuverability to return to and land at the point of departure.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  The 1903 did take off under its own power. The catapult came later.
  - Zak 2y ago
    I had the impression it took off downhill for that flight, failing my criterion, but it actually took off from level ground with a strong headwind. I'll give it partial credit; I don't think its rail would have been long enough in calm wind.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      Fun fact: all airplanes take off into the wind as much as possible.
      - Zak 2y ago
        I know, but any practical airplane can take off in calm wind from level ground. The first Wright Flyer required a strong headwind or downhill angle.
        WalterBright 2y ago
        The Flyer was on a rail with a wheeled cart. The fact that it moved forward under its own power (faster than Orville could run) demonstrated that it could take off in a calm, just that the rail would have had to be longer. Their experiments with it ended when a gust flipped it on the ground and broke it beyond repair.
some_random 2y ago
If someone came forward with a perpetual motion machine that allowed for infinite energy, no one would argue that they didn't invent it even though generations of cranks have come up with similar ideas. For any non-hacked definition of airplane, the Wright Brothers invented the airplane, they were the first ones to put all the pieces together for powered flight then actually go and do it.