4 ms·

so president biden were voted out due to his poor job while president trump is aligned with a large share of the population of the US have to say I completely

by suraci 2y ago

so president biden were voted out due to his poor job while president trump is aligned with a large share of the population of the US have to say I completely agree with this... but it still confuses me for instance, how the 'feedback loop' works for elon musk and robert kennedy jr, as they are not in the feedback loop of voting

Qem 2y ago
> while president trump is aligned with a large share of the population of the US Judgement is passed by the end of the term. So that's a open question for now. > how the 'feedback loop' works for elon musk and robert kennedy jr, as they are not in the feedback loop of voting They were appointed by someone that was elected. So their fuck-ups count against whoever appointed them. But this is not to say democracy as implemented is always perfect. For it to work properly I think a diverse pool of viable would-be leaders must be present, to maximize the odds of at least one well aligned being present for people to choose. Indirect voting and the bipartisan system screw this, creating moral hazards and poor fit candidates that just take turns between them. It's like we know evolution works, but if everybody starts marrying their cousin, the gene pool will lose the raw diversity necessary for evolution to work. Democracy must be fixed, not terminated.
- tourmalinetaco 2y ago
  Democracy, even Athenian democracy, is not a feasible large-scale system and there’s a reason we have never been a democracy. Not even the inventors of democracy were democratic in the modern sense. There were heavy restrictions on who could vote and how, namely: only males, you had to be a proper citizen of Athens by birth, you had to publicly serve military, and you had to actively participate in the politics in order for your vote to count. Mob rule is what modern “democracy” is, and that’s dangerous.
red-iron-pine 2y ago
Biden wasn't voted out; he was old as shit and opted not to run Trump got just over 1/3 of eligible US votes. the Republicans could have run the dead corpse of Nixon and probably gotten at least 1/4 of eligible votes just because he was running on a GOP ticket. almost 1/3 of the US eligible voters didn't vote at all. the Elector College means that red states have a disproportional sway in elections.
- palmotea 2y ago
  > Trump got just over 1/3 of eligible US votes. Sorry, that's kind of bullshit. Stating things that way is just spin to mischaracterize the actual result. > almost 1/3 of the US eligible voters didn't vote at all. Things are weird now. The indications I've been seeing is the less engaged the voter, the more they tended to support Trump. So if those people voted, Trump would have probably have had a bigger win. In prior years, those voters would have tended to support Democrats, but not anymore. The Democrats got rejected badly. They lost to a dangerous buffoon. Instead of sticking their heads in the sand, they need to own that loss and internalize what that means about them.
  - mcphage 2y ago
    > Instead of sticking their heads in the sand, they need to own that loss and internalize what that means about them. Is that actually true? I've been around ~45 years, and the Republicans have been in and out of power repeatedly during that span. But I don't think they've ever owned a loss, and I don't think they've ever internalizing what it means about them. And it hasn't stopped them from coming back into power, once the mess from their last misadventure has been cleaned up.
    - palmotea 2y ago
      > And it hasn't stopped them from coming back into power, once the mess from their last misadventure has been cleaned up. I'm sure the Democrats at some point will come back into power in a 50%+1 squeaker, but that will be bad for the country and another step in its decline. If they want to be the people to actually answer this crisis, instead of ratifying it, they damn well better own thier loss and internalize what that means about them. They lost to Trump, twice, FFS. The only Democrat who could beat him was a fossil from another time (and he only won by a hair). The Democrats suck. They need reform into something else for the sake of the God-damned country.
      - mcphage 2y ago
        > I'm sure the Democrats at some point will come back into power in a 50%+1 squeaker > If they want to be the people to actually answer this crisis, instead of ratifying it Honestly? I'm not convinced they do—they seem to be content swapping back and forth, saying "well at least we're not evil". Which like sure, they're not trying to burn the country down, and that's a good thing, but they don't seem to be putting any effort in stopping the country from being burned down by the Republicans. And that's not a good thing. I guess all that's to say, I agree with you.
lolive 2y ago
Isn’t the feedback loop supposed to be Elon/Robert trying to convince the deputees and senators of the validity of the law they propose? And the deputees and senators being accountable to their people for their decisions in Washington ?

by suraci 2y ago

Qem 2y ago

> while president trump is aligned with a large share of the population of the US Judgement is passed by the end of the term. So that's a open question for now. > how the 'feedback loop' works for elon musk and robert kennedy jr, as they are not in the feedback loop of voting They were appointed by someone that was elected. So their fuck-ups count against whoever appointed them. But this is not to say democracy as implemented is always perfect. For it to work properly I think a diverse pool of viable would-be leaders must be present, to maximize the odds of at least one well aligned being present for people to choose. Indirect voting and the bipartisan system screw this, creating moral hazards and poor fit candidates that just take turns between them. It's like we know evolution works, but if everybody starts marrying their cousin, the gene pool will lose the raw diversity necessary for evolution to work. Democracy must be fixed, not terminated.

tourmalinetaco 2y ago
Democracy, even Athenian democracy, is not a feasible large-scale system and there’s a reason we have never been a democracy. Not even the inventors of democracy were democratic in the modern sense. There were heavy restrictions on who could vote and how, namely: only males, you had to be a proper citizen of Athens by birth, you had to publicly serve military, and you had to actively participate in the politics in order for your vote to count. Mob rule is what modern “democracy” is, and that’s dangerous.

red-iron-pine 2y ago

Biden wasn't voted out; he was old as shit and opted not to run Trump got just over 1/3 of eligible US votes. the Republicans could have run the dead corpse of Nixon and probably gotten at least 1/4 of eligible votes just because he was running on a GOP ticket. almost 1/3 of the US eligible voters didn't vote at all. the Elector College means that red states have a disproportional sway in elections.

palmotea 2y ago
> Trump got just over 1/3 of eligible US votes. Sorry, that's kind of bullshit. Stating things that way is just spin to mischaracterize the actual result. > almost 1/3 of the US eligible voters didn't vote at all. Things are weird now. The indications I've been seeing is the less engaged the voter, the more they tended to support Trump. So if those people voted, Trump would have probably have had a bigger win. In prior years, those voters would have tended to support Democrats, but not anymore. The Democrats got rejected badly. They lost to a dangerous buffoon. Instead of sticking their heads in the sand, they need to own that loss and internalize what that means about them.
- mcphage 2y ago
  > Instead of sticking their heads in the sand, they need to own that loss and internalize what that means about them. Is that actually true? I've been around ~45 years, and the Republicans have been in and out of power repeatedly during that span. But I don't think they've ever owned a loss, and I don't think they've ever internalizing what it means about them. And it hasn't stopped them from coming back into power, once the mess from their last misadventure has been cleaned up.
  - palmotea 2y ago
    > And it hasn't stopped them from coming back into power, once the mess from their last misadventure has been cleaned up. I'm sure the Democrats at some point will come back into power in a 50%+1 squeaker, but that will be bad for the country and another step in its decline. If they want to be the people to actually answer this crisis, instead of ratifying it, they damn well better own thier loss and internalize what that means about them. They lost to Trump, twice, FFS. The only Democrat who could beat him was a fossil from another time (and he only won by a hair). The Democrats suck. They need reform into something else for the sake of the God-damned country.
    - mcphage 2y ago
      > I'm sure the Democrats at some point will come back into power in a 50%+1 squeaker > If they want to be the people to actually answer this crisis, instead of ratifying it Honestly? I'm not convinced they do—they seem to be content swapping back and forth, saying "well at least we're not evil". Which like sure, they're not trying to burn the country down, and that's a good thing, but they don't seem to be putting any effort in stopping the country from being burned down by the Republicans. And that's not a good thing. I guess all that's to say, I agree with you.

lolive 2y ago

Isn’t the feedback loop supposed to be Elon/Robert trying to convince the deputees and senators of the validity of the law they propose? And the deputees and senators being accountable to their people for their decisions in Washington ?