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So it sounds like HP pays nothing to the people they hurt, they don't have to admit to doing anything wrong, and they get to continue to kill printers using for

So it sounds like HP pays nothing to the people they hurt, they don't have to admit to doing anything wrong, and they get to continue to kill printers using forced updates as long as they aren't one of 21 specific models, and even for those 21 models they can still kill them using updates as long as they don't call the update a "Dynamic Security feature"? This is exactly the kind of bullshit "win" that makes class-action lawsuits a total joke for anyone looking for justice, and why corporations continue to engage in user-hostile behavior. They stand to make a lot more money screwing over consumers than they have to fear from lawsuits.

ryao 2y ago
I suspect that lawyers that fish for clients to represent in class action lawsuits intend to settle for a quick payout (to themselves) rather than actually represent the interests of those they represent. If that is not the case, HP’s lawyers are fantastic.
- brookst 2y ago
  Yep. There are three parties here: HP, the people they hurt, and the class action lawyers. It’s better for both HP and the class action lawyers to get a resolution that doesn’t cost HP too much, doesn’t bind HP’s future actions, and pays out nicely to the class action lawyers.
  - klabb3 2y ago
    > There are three parties here: HP, the people they hurt, and the class action lawyers. You need to break apart the class action members from ”people they hurt”. The members of the class can be more narrow and easier to prove. The lawyers should have incentive to maximize damage x members. > the class action lawyers to get a resolution that doesn’t cost HP too much Naively, the incentives should be aligned with the class action members at this point. Why not? Can the lawyers negotiate directly with HP to increase their share of the pie? > doesn’t bind HP’s future actions Yes, but isn't that just water is wet? Like, the members want compensation, not different behavior in the future. (Unless it’s a defendant you need to continue doing business with like an employer). I thought class actions was supposed to act as a deterrent.
    - stonogo 2y ago
      The incentives are not aligned with the class action members: sweetening the pot to get HP to accept the settlement means the lawyers can move on to another case, instead of this one dragging out.
- short_sells_poo 2y ago
  I wonder if, after becoming successful, every company ends up turning into a law firm - ie dominated by lawyers and accountants. Instead of innovating, the only thing they know how to do is extract money from their product line in increasingly user hostile means.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    Innovation is a tremendous gamble and a cost sink. Milking the system and capturing the government pays out reliably.
- navigate8310 2y ago
  I was not aware of this fact before I watched Better Call Saul. Really opened my eyes how the complete system is optimized to screw anyone who seeks justice.
- rs186 2y ago
  Somewhat related: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/gloria-allred-sex-abuse-celebrities-clients-db4be5d5 https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/gloria-allred-sex-abuse-cele... I just started to realize that law firms are businesses, and what they care about the most, above everything else, is making a profit. Are these lawyers warriors for women's rights? Maybe. But what I know for sure is that they want to make money more than they want to be warriors. Which explains why they can directly talk to the other party's lawyers and get you a decent settlement, instead of actually going through litigation, at all.
- swat535 2y ago
  Yes, actually, this monetization strategy is quite common, especially among smaller firms. I know of a few here in Montreal, Canada, that will go after any big company (Mastercard, Facebook, Google, you name it) with random class action lawsuits. Then they settle as quickly as possible and cash out, usually with a payout in the $500K to $5M range. To keep costs low, these firms often rely on interns, who are either unpaid or minimally paid and may only retain one or two actual lawyers. It's become a whole cottage industry, kind of like patent trolling.
nmridul 2y ago
Could the future users (or the users who were not part of current suite) start another class action ?
- edoceo 2y ago
  Sure. And they'd get what? Based on this outcome - nothing.
cratermoon 2y ago
The anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA need to go.

ryao 2y ago

I suspect that lawyers that fish for clients to represent in class action lawsuits intend to settle for a quick payout (to themselves) rather than actually represent the interests of those they represent. If that is not the case, HP’s lawyers are fantastic.

brookst 2y ago
Yep. There are three parties here: HP, the people they hurt, and the class action lawyers. It’s better for both HP and the class action lawyers to get a resolution that doesn’t cost HP too much, doesn’t bind HP’s future actions, and pays out nicely to the class action lawyers.
- klabb3 2y ago
  > There are three parties here: HP, the people they hurt, and the class action lawyers. You need to break apart the class action members from ”people they hurt”. The members of the class can be more narrow and easier to prove. The lawyers should have incentive to maximize damage x members. > the class action lawyers to get a resolution that doesn’t cost HP too much Naively, the incentives should be aligned with the class action members at this point. Why not? Can the lawyers negotiate directly with HP to increase their share of the pie? > doesn’t bind HP’s future actions Yes, but isn't that just water is wet? Like, the members want compensation, not different behavior in the future. (Unless it’s a defendant you need to continue doing business with like an employer). I thought class actions was supposed to act as a deterrent.
  - stonogo 2y ago
    The incentives are not aligned with the class action members: sweetening the pot to get HP to accept the settlement means the lawyers can move on to another case, instead of this one dragging out.
short_sells_poo 2y ago
I wonder if, after becoming successful, every company ends up turning into a law firm - ie dominated by lawyers and accountants. Instead of innovating, the only thing they know how to do is extract money from their product line in increasingly user hostile means.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  Innovation is a tremendous gamble and a cost sink. Milking the system and capturing the government pays out reliably.
navigate8310 2y ago
I was not aware of this fact before I watched Better Call Saul. Really opened my eyes how the complete system is optimized to screw anyone who seeks justice.
rs186 2y ago
Somewhat related: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/gloria-allred-sex-abuse-celebrities-clients-db4be5d5 https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/gloria-allred-sex-abuse-cele... I just started to realize that law firms are businesses, and what they care about the most, above everything else, is making a profit. Are these lawyers warriors for women's rights? Maybe. But what I know for sure is that they want to make money more than they want to be warriors. Which explains why they can directly talk to the other party's lawyers and get you a decent settlement, instead of actually going through litigation, at all.
swat535 2y ago
Yes, actually, this monetization strategy is quite common, especially among smaller firms. I know of a few here in Montreal, Canada, that will go after any big company (Mastercard, Facebook, Google, you name it) with random class action lawsuits. Then they settle as quickly as possible and cash out, usually with a payout in the $500K to $5M range. To keep costs low, these firms often rely on interns, who are either unpaid or minimally paid and may only retain one or two actual lawyers. It's become a whole cottage industry, kind of like patent trolling.

nmridul 2y ago

Could the future users (or the users who were not part of current suite) start another class action ?

edoceo 2y ago
Sure. And they'd get what? Based on this outcome - nothing.

cratermoon 2y ago

The anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA need to go.