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Want to convince me of AI coding? Let's see AI go modernize the old X11 codebase. Wayland progress is so glacially slow that a motivated programmer should be

by bsder 2y ago

Want to convince me of AI coding? Let's see AI go modernize the old X11 codebase. Wayland progress is so glacially slow that a motivated programmer should be able to run rings around them with AI on X11, right? Show me that, and I'll pay attention to "AI". > Many of us don’t just write code - we love writing code. Excuse me, I HATE writing code. Code is the thing that is in the way between what I want to computer to do and the computer doing it. If AI reduces that burden, I would be the first to jump on that wave. GUI programming still sucks. GPU programming still sucks. Embedded programming still sucks. Concurrent programming still sucks. I can go on and on. I was actually having this discussion with somebody the other day that 99% of my programming is "Shaving Yaks" and 1% actually focused on the problem I want to solve. When AI starts shaving the yaks for me, I'll start getting excited.

chickenzzzzu 2y ago
I would like to say this as unambiguously as possible. You either have a skill issue, or you are deliberately solving problems other than the thing you actually want to solve, which you do not mention.
- 9dev 2y ago
  I think he’s got a point actually. How many times has a compiler told you about a missing semicolon ”here“, and you’ve never thought, ”well if you’re so clever, why don’t you just solve it?!“ Code is an awful abstraction to capture chains of thoughts, but it’s the best we’ve got. Still, caring about syntax, application architecture, concurrency, memory layout, type casting, …—all of that is just busywork, not making the robot go beep.
  - mdaniel 2y ago
    ed: or did you omit a "not" as in "not just busywork"? > application architecture, I think you got carried away with your analogy there, because I can assure you that if the LLM generates kafkaClient.sendMessage everywhere for latency sensitive apps, that's not gonna go well, or similar for httpClient.post for high throughput cases
    - 9dev 2y ago
      Neither. What I was trying to say was that all tasks I listed are just there to please the binary gods, not to solve actual business problems. With Application architecture, I was more referring to the layout of the code, as in module boundaries, class inheritance, and so on.
- blacksoil 2y ago
  > You either have a skill issue, or you are deliberately solving problems other than the thing you actually want to solve, which you do not mention. Wow the first one is quite judgmental. FWIW, I'm the same way, I like writing some code, but definitely not all code. Writing CRUD boilerplate for a schema? No thank you, AI is more than welcome to take that. I derive my joy from getting something done, making it actually usable by the business side, and ultimately have it to generate revenue.
cheevly 2y ago
Let me see you build an airplane with bricks and mortar, only then will I be excited by the power of flight.
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  You’re saying X11 is that bad?
- Werewolf255 2y ago
  "Look, you're being a pessimist. Yes, over half of the airplanes we make kill everyone on board. But you're really NOT focused on the planes that kill only 75% of the crew and passengers. Just think! In ten years, we'll know how to build a plane! Please stop telling me that we already have designs for planes that work. I don't want to hear that anymore."

by bsder 2y ago

chickenzzzzu 2y ago

I would like to say this as unambiguously as possible. You either have a skill issue, or you are deliberately solving problems other than the thing you actually want to solve, which you do not mention.

9dev 2y ago
I think he’s got a point actually. How many times has a compiler told you about a missing semicolon ”here“, and you’ve never thought, ”well if you’re so clever, why don’t you just solve it?!“ Code is an awful abstraction to capture chains of thoughts, but it’s the best we’ve got. Still, caring about syntax, application architecture, concurrency, memory layout, type casting, …—all of that is just busywork, not making the robot go beep.
- mdaniel 2y ago
  ed: or did you omit a "not" as in "not just busywork"? > application architecture, I think you got carried away with your analogy there, because I can assure you that if the LLM generates kafkaClient.sendMessage everywhere for latency sensitive apps, that's not gonna go well, or similar for httpClient.post for high throughput cases
  - 9dev 2y ago
    Neither. What I was trying to say was that all tasks I listed are just there to please the binary gods, not to solve actual business problems. With Application architecture, I was more referring to the layout of the code, as in module boundaries, class inheritance, and so on.
blacksoil 2y ago
> You either have a skill issue, or you are deliberately solving problems other than the thing you actually want to solve, which you do not mention. Wow the first one is quite judgmental. FWIW, I'm the same way, I like writing some code, but definitely not all code. Writing CRUD boilerplate for a schema? No thank you, AI is more than welcome to take that. I derive my joy from getting something done, making it actually usable by the business side, and ultimately have it to generate revenue.

cheevly 2y ago

Let me see you build an airplane with bricks and mortar, only then will I be excited by the power of flight.

Apocryphon 2y ago
You’re saying X11 is that bad?
Werewolf255 2y ago
"Look, you're being a pessimist. Yes, over half of the airplanes we make kill everyone on board. But you're really NOT focused on the planes that kill only 75% of the crew and passengers. Just think! In ten years, we'll know how to build a plane! Please stop telling me that we already have designs for planes that work. I don't want to hear that anymore."