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> Presumptive Chancellor Friedrich Merz has decided that now is the moment for Germany to invest in its military, on levels not seen since the Cold War Now? Af

by rdtsc 2y ago

> Presumptive Chancellor Friedrich Merz has decided that now is the moment for Germany to invest in its military, on levels not seen since the Cold War Now? After spending billions funding Putin’s war with gas money. Especially after watching him annex Crimea in 2014, or taking Ukraine’s NATO’s membership off the table after Bucharest summit. Now they finally see how dangerous he is! Better later than never I guess… In perverse way they are also doing Trump’s bidding who chastised them for not investing enough in defense.

redserk 2y ago
I don't understand the angle of remarks like this. Russia invaded Ukraine, Germany pulled back money going to Russia, and Germany is now investing where it's appropriate. Are we expecting them to re-litigate this problem until the end of time instead of addressing the problem?
- rdtsc 2y ago
  They should have strengthened their military and supported Ukraine joining NATO instead of opposing it publicly at the Bucharest Summit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bucharest_summit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bucharest_summit > The Alliance did not offer a Membership Action Plan to Georgia or Ukraine, largely due to the opposition of Germany US govt warned Merkel to wind down purchasing gas and oil from Putin: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/trump-scolded-germany-for-buying-gas-from-russia-heres-what-we-know https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/trump-scolded-germany-for... Currently as it stands for all great chest thumping for "supporting Ukraine" EU as a whole is spending more money funding the war by buying gas and oil from the Russian than helping Ukraine. But somehow in the media domain, they managed to position themselves as great friends and supporters of Ukraine. It's quite baffling. https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/01/03/europe-russia-ukraine-war-energy-imports-oil-gas-pipeline https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/01/03/europe-russia-ukraine-w... (https://archive.is/1ULVQ https://archive.is/1ULVQ)
  - rdsubhas 2y ago
    This, and they actually invested heavily into building Nord Stream 2 from 2011 onwards. Nord Stream 2 never delivered any gas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2
    - benterix 2y ago
      NS2 was a shameful project, it's best for everybody that it was destroyed.
  - gls2ro 2y ago
    The world politics specifically US+Germany+Russia is at least one level more complex than describing it as a transaction between these 3 countries. I dont pretend to understand it but I also dont think you should minimize it to just one or two transactions. Nobody can predict the future when thinking about international politics. We cannot apply human level rules to interaction between countries.
    - rdtsc 2y ago
      > I dont pretend to understand it but I also dont think you should minimize it to just one or two transactions. I think no matter how complicated when it comes to regular citizens, not those who have a political science degree, there should be some basic understanding. One doesn't need an advanced degree to see things things like hypocrisy, corruption and lies. One would expect that when a politician goes on camera and says "Putin is a killer! We support Ukraine" then turns around and writes $1B to Putin every month, people would be a bit dismayed at the hypocrisy. Especially when they got a fair warning about it. One might suggest that we hide the fact that we supported Putin and strengthened the dependence on Russian energy for so long in order not upset the public too much as it's too controversial and disturbs the peace, sure. However, at some point that made-up fantasy has to collide with reality, and that's what is happening now I think. The longer we live in a fantasy world the harder the crash with reality will be later on.
carlio 2y ago
Do you suggest not doing it then?
- rdtsc 2y ago
  I suggesting doing it faster and acknowledging it was a mistake not doing it sooner.
hnkland 2y ago
[dead]
stogot 2y ago
It’s a different leader. Those are unfair attacks
- rdtsc 2y ago
  Unless we're talking about an authoritarian regime and it falls with a revolution, then it's hard to blame the new leaders that much. But in case of democratically elected government it is worth pointing out the electorate and the people around the government apparatus when they made a strategically bad choice. Not just to berate them but with an eye toward improving the situation in the future.

by rdtsc 2y ago

redserk 2y ago

I don't understand the angle of remarks like this. Russia invaded Ukraine, Germany pulled back money going to Russia, and Germany is now investing where it's appropriate. Are we expecting them to re-litigate this problem until the end of time instead of addressing the problem?

rdtsc 2y ago
They should have strengthened their military and supported Ukraine joining NATO instead of opposing it publicly at the Bucharest Summit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bucharest_summit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bucharest_summit > The Alliance did not offer a Membership Action Plan to Georgia or Ukraine, largely due to the opposition of Germany US govt warned Merkel to wind down purchasing gas and oil from Putin: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/trump-scolded-germany-for-buying-gas-from-russia-heres-what-we-know https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/trump-scolded-germany-for... Currently as it stands for all great chest thumping for "supporting Ukraine" EU as a whole is spending more money funding the war by buying gas and oil from the Russian than helping Ukraine. But somehow in the media domain, they managed to position themselves as great friends and supporters of Ukraine. It's quite baffling. https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/01/03/europe-russia-ukraine-war-energy-imports-oil-gas-pipeline https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/01/03/europe-russia-ukraine-w... (https://archive.is/1ULVQ https://archive.is/1ULVQ)
- rdsubhas 2y ago
  This, and they actually invested heavily into building Nord Stream 2 from 2011 onwards. Nord Stream 2 never delivered any gas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2
  - benterix 2y ago
    NS2 was a shameful project, it's best for everybody that it was destroyed.
- gls2ro 2y ago
  The world politics specifically US+Germany+Russia is at least one level more complex than describing it as a transaction between these 3 countries. I dont pretend to understand it but I also dont think you should minimize it to just one or two transactions. Nobody can predict the future when thinking about international politics. We cannot apply human level rules to interaction between countries.
  - rdtsc 2y ago
    > I dont pretend to understand it but I also dont think you should minimize it to just one or two transactions. I think no matter how complicated when it comes to regular citizens, not those who have a political science degree, there should be some basic understanding. One doesn't need an advanced degree to see things things like hypocrisy, corruption and lies. One would expect that when a politician goes on camera and says "Putin is a killer! We support Ukraine" then turns around and writes $1B to Putin every month, people would be a bit dismayed at the hypocrisy. Especially when they got a fair warning about it. One might suggest that we hide the fact that we supported Putin and strengthened the dependence on Russian energy for so long in order not upset the public too much as it's too controversial and disturbs the peace, sure. However, at some point that made-up fantasy has to collide with reality, and that's what is happening now I think. The longer we live in a fantasy world the harder the crash with reality will be later on.

carlio 2y ago

Do you suggest not doing it then?

rdtsc 2y ago
I suggesting doing it faster and acknowledging it was a mistake not doing it sooner.

hnkland 2y ago

[dead]

stogot 2y ago

It’s a different leader. Those are unfair attacks

rdtsc 2y ago
Unless we're talking about an authoritarian regime and it falls with a revolution, then it's hard to blame the new leaders that much. But in case of democratically elected government it is worth pointing out the electorate and the people around the government apparatus when they made a strategically bad choice. Not just to berate them but with an eye toward improving the situation in the future.