4 ms·

I don’t have the exact numbers, but for every billion not invested in healthcare, infrastructure, or clean energy, countless people will end up suffering or dyi

I don’t have the exact numbers, but for every billion not invested in healthcare, infrastructure, or clean energy, countless people will end up suffering or dying unnecessarily. Take this study[0] as an example: austerity measures in Greece led to 10,000 avoidable infant deaths. Plenty of other studies show similar results, cutting social spending costs lives. So how many deaths will come from shifting €800 billion from social programs to military budgets? It’s a sure thing that this will cause suffering and death, while the idea that we need all that money for defense is just speculation, especially when the EU’s combined military budget is already far bigger than Russia’s. - [0]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2407.17084 https://arxiv.org/abs/2407.17084

surgical_fire 2y ago
> EU’s combined military budget is already far bigger than Russia’s. But it is much smaller than the US' military spending, who is at this point a hostile foreign nation.
- ossobuco 2y ago
  I would even agree on this, but I wonder why do I never hear anyone requesting for the EU leadership to be held accountable for pursuing a policy of blind dependence on the US? We've cut ties with anyone the US disliked, only to be left alone all of a sudden, why aren't we looking for those responsible for this? I can tell you, many of them are currently in a position of power within the EU. Right now we have top diplomats like Kallas saying publicly that we need to find a way to beat China, all while we already have problems with Russia and the USA. They are putting us in a corner against the rest of the world, and for what? Who has to benefit from this?
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    > I wonder why do I never hear anyone requesting for the EU leadership to be held accountable for pursuing a policy of blind dependence on the US? The EU is a democratic institution. Its leaders are elected (or appointed by those who are elected). The way to hold them accountable is during elections. I don't think that anyone campaigning on a platform to spend money on defense in EU would have been very successful prior to 2025. Things likely changed now.
    - ossobuco 2y ago
      > The EU is a democratic institution I don't understand how Von Der Leyen got "elected" again then, given her horrible performance, and that only a 37% of Europeans views her favourably[0]. The catastrophic situation we find ourselves in developed under her commission, after all. > The way to hold them accountable is during elections. Given that VDL was elected by the EU parlament with secret ballot, how do I know which MEP voted her, so that I can vote someone else at the next EU elections? - [0]: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/04/03/von-der-leyens-commission-not-winning-most-european-hearts-and-minds-polling-suggests https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/04/03/von-der-leyens...
      - surgical_fire 2y ago
        Von der Leyen is president of the EU commission. Members of EU commission are appointed by each EU member head of state - who are all democratically elected. All EU countries should be democracies after all, although Hungary is certainly stretching this definition. The president of the commission is appointed by the EU council (which is generally formed by the government of each member state), but has to be formally approved by the EU parliament. If you are unhappy with how your countries' elected members of parliament (or how its head of state conducts your country position within the EU), you can vote to change it. This includes decisions on which votes are by secret ballot.
        ossobuco 2y ago
        Nothing of what I said is incorrect, yet you chose to provide a condescending and pointless explainer instead of addressing my arguments. Why is VDL ruling the commission if her previous performance was terrible and she isn't viewed favorably by the majority of Europeans? Why was she appointed by MPEs with secret ballot? Given the current situation, do you really believe the democratic system in place for the EU provides efficient mechanisms for holding elected officials accountable for their actions? I'd honestly expect better from the supposed "cradle of democracy".
        2y ago
jaapz 2y ago
The difference in Germany is that they made a historic change to their consitution where they are now able to grow their military by borrowing way more money. They are not moving money away from healthcare and infrastructure, they are actually creating a way to increase their military budget without having to move money away from healthcare and infrastructure (because in Germany, the money is sorely needed there as well).
- ossobuco 2y ago
  Basically making more debt that the future generations will have to pay? The end result will be the same. These are just financial tricks, money can be created out of thin air but not resources, energy, etc.
netsharc 2y ago
[flagged]

surgical_fire 2y ago

> EU’s combined military budget is already far bigger than Russia’s. But it is much smaller than the US' military spending, who is at this point a hostile foreign nation.

ossobuco 2y ago
I would even agree on this, but I wonder why do I never hear anyone requesting for the EU leadership to be held accountable for pursuing a policy of blind dependence on the US? We've cut ties with anyone the US disliked, only to be left alone all of a sudden, why aren't we looking for those responsible for this? I can tell you, many of them are currently in a position of power within the EU. Right now we have top diplomats like Kallas saying publicly that we need to find a way to beat China, all while we already have problems with Russia and the USA. They are putting us in a corner against the rest of the world, and for what? Who has to benefit from this?
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  > I wonder why do I never hear anyone requesting for the EU leadership to be held accountable for pursuing a policy of blind dependence on the US? The EU is a democratic institution. Its leaders are elected (or appointed by those who are elected). The way to hold them accountable is during elections. I don't think that anyone campaigning on a platform to spend money on defense in EU would have been very successful prior to 2025. Things likely changed now.
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    > The EU is a democratic institution I don't understand how Von Der Leyen got "elected" again then, given her horrible performance, and that only a 37% of Europeans views her favourably[0]. The catastrophic situation we find ourselves in developed under her commission, after all. > The way to hold them accountable is during elections. Given that VDL was elected by the EU parlament with secret ballot, how do I know which MEP voted her, so that I can vote someone else at the next EU elections? - [0]: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/04/03/von-der-leyens-commission-not-winning-most-european-hearts-and-minds-polling-suggests https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/04/03/von-der-leyens...
    - surgical_fire 2y ago
      Von der Leyen is president of the EU commission. Members of EU commission are appointed by each EU member head of state - who are all democratically elected. All EU countries should be democracies after all, although Hungary is certainly stretching this definition. The president of the commission is appointed by the EU council (which is generally formed by the government of each member state), but has to be formally approved by the EU parliament. If you are unhappy with how your countries' elected members of parliament (or how its head of state conducts your country position within the EU), you can vote to change it. This includes decisions on which votes are by secret ballot.
      - ossobuco 2y ago
        Nothing of what I said is incorrect, yet you chose to provide a condescending and pointless explainer instead of addressing my arguments. Why is VDL ruling the commission if her previous performance was terrible and she isn't viewed favorably by the majority of Europeans? Why was she appointed by MPEs with secret ballot? Given the current situation, do you really believe the democratic system in place for the EU provides efficient mechanisms for holding elected officials accountable for their actions? I'd honestly expect better from the supposed "cradle of democracy".
        2y ago

jaapz 2y ago

The difference in Germany is that they made a historic change to their consitution where they are now able to grow their military by borrowing way more money. They are not moving money away from healthcare and infrastructure, they are actually creating a way to increase their military budget without having to move money away from healthcare and infrastructure (because in Germany, the money is sorely needed there as well).

ossobuco 2y ago
Basically making more debt that the future generations will have to pay? The end result will be the same. These are just financial tricks, money can be created out of thin air but not resources, energy, etc.

netsharc 2y ago

[flagged]