5 ms·

the worst programmer nowadays is the vibe coder. vibe coding is so overrated imo https://www.lycee.ai/blog/why-vibe-coding-is-overrated https://www.lycee.ai/blo

by fsndz 2y ago

the worst programmer nowadays is the vibe coder. vibe coding is so overrated imo https://www.lycee.ai/blog/why-vibe-coding-is-overrated https://www.lycee.ai/blog/why-vibe-coding-is-overrated

sanex 2y ago
I've been writing code professionally for a decade but I've never written so much code in my free time because I can just vibe code it all. I wouldn't do it at work and I probably wouldn't trust a juniors vibes as much as my own but no tools have made me feel quite so powerful.
- fsndz 2y ago
  it's definitely nice for prototypes, but nothing more complex.
  - eclipxe 2y ago
    I used to feel that way but my perspective over the last 6 months has changed greatly. You can absolutely build very complex things in this style
    - fsndz 2y ago
      show me an example of such a complex thing obtained after just writing prompts
      - godelski 2y ago
        Sometimes you enter a codebase and it looks like there's some obscure attempt to summon a Lovecraftian entity made of spaghetti and duct tape. Those codebases are both the shitiest and most complex stuff I've ever seen. They sure don't work well and I'm not even sure do a good job at summoning the old ones. I don't find LLM code significantly differing from that kind of monstrosity. It sure is complex.
    - Yoric 2y ago
      That's actually not a contradiction. As far as I can tell, you can build very complex prototypes. But unless these prototypes can be both trusted and maintained, that's all they are.
      - NitpickLawyer 2y ago
        > As far as I can tell, you can build very complex prototypes. I think GP was saying you can do more than prototypes. I agree, but it's not (yet) universal on where you can apply it. The best case for my projects has been in trivial but tedious "3rd party integrations". Say you have a mature product but client x wants integration with product z. We are now at a point where we can say "this is our internal model {json dump}, this is the 3rd party integration docs / example {code dump}, write interfaces for this". And it works most times. For things that are a bit more complicated, /architect first and then "now write it" w/ some things from the architect session in context also works. YMMV but don't dismiss it out of habit. Things are moving very fast in this space, and I choose to focus on what works now, not on what doesn't. I'm well aware not everything works, but when it does it saves a lot of time.
        Yoric 2y ago
        We're talking about vibe coding, not just AI-assisted coding. Do you put this in production without review?
        NitpickLawyer 2y ago
        Oh, my bad, and TIL. I thought vibe coding is the trendy way of saying you're using LLM based code in tools like aider/cline/cursor/windsurf... edit: So I did a quick google, apparently it's this: > Vibe coding is an AI-dependent programming technique where a person describes a problem in a few sentences as a prompt to a large language model (LLM) tuned for coding. The LLM generates software, shifting the programmer’s role from manual coding to guiding, testing, and refining the AI-generated source code.[1][2][3] Vibe coding is claimed by its advocates to allow even amateur programmers to produce software without the extensive training and skills previously required for software engineering.[4] The term was introduced by Andrej Karpathy in February 2025[5][2][4][1] and listed in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary the following month as a "slang & trending" noun.[6] (from wiki) So ... now I'm confused again. I don't see the no testing / reviewing part in here. Is vibe coding the new AGI, where everyone has a different definition?
    - siva7 2y ago
      I wouldn't trust vibe coding to a junior. This would be a recipe for desaster. It's a skill best paired with a very senior dev who can correctly assess the output of the AI.
- yodsanklai 2y ago
  I never tried vibe code as described in this article, but I could see where it breaks. Initially, code works. Eventually, there's a bug, and the LLM isn't able to fix it. At that stage, you're on your own with a potentially large codebase which is totally new to you. Even on small projects, sometimes I'm tired, I just try to get the LLM do some refactoring for me or write a couple of tests. First, whatever the LLM writes, it's going to code review and I'm not submitting code that I haven't read and understood just to have colleagues complaining. Second, if the code doesn't work, it gets frustrating. For LLMs to help, I like to have a pretty clear idea of what I want, how the "right" code looks like so I can give more indications.
  - sanex 2y ago
    Yeah it's totally a situation where obviously I can write it myself if I had the time so I just correct it as it goes. I also give it lots of guidelines on what I'm looking for but after some setup I can just watch TV and check on it every couple minutes.
  - mrheosuper 2y ago
    The idea is "Rewriting is faster than debugging", so if something breaks, you ask LLM to rewrite it Not a fan of it.
- android521 2y ago
  Vibe coding works for experienced developers who give very detailed instructions including edge cases and potential issues or solutions. It is almost code already as it has already included all important code business logic (leaving the simple parts for Ai to fill in ). It is a maintenance disaster for junior developers or non-coders.
smokel 2y ago
Perhaps give it some time before judging too harshly?
- fsndz 2y ago
  vibe coding has been in the scene since the emergence of ChatGPT perhaps...
  - vincenthwt 2y ago
    Much earlier. Ever since Google, I’ve been 'vibe' coding—just a different buzzword, I guess.
bitwize 2y ago
Vibe coding is now a skill requirement for real, actual jobs but, thankfully I guess, no place I want to work (yet). The other day I saw a YC24 company in the "financial services industry" with a "vibe coder position". A prerequisite for the position was at least 50% of your current code being generated by AI; vibe-coding experience was "non-negotiable". Traditional programmers need not apply. And you'd better be ready to grind, 12 hours a day up to 7 days a week. It pays up to $120,000 a year plus squat for equity and relocation to San Francisco is required. That's like, McDonald's money in San Francisco, so guess they figure running a vibe-coding sweatshop is a huge savings for them. Oh, and the cherry on top? The "financial service" this startup provides? Automated robocalls demanding money from debtors on behalf of debt collectors. https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/domu-technology-inc/jobs/hwWsGdU-vibe-coder-ai-engineer https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/domu-technology-inc/jo... YC has entered its villain arc.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- fsndz 2y ago
  it's just a marketing stunt like prompt engineer with 200K salary back in the day. And the fact that you are talking about it and sharing the link to the company's profile means the stunt is working.
- godelski 2y ago
  > +3 years of experience. Ummmm..... what? This seems like it was written by someone who loves Dystopian Sci-Fi. Loves in the way that it is the future they want to live in.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  “Your onboarding will be making collection calls.” So, your AI debt collection startup onboards engineers by...having them work as human call-center debt collectors? Is there really AI at all? Oh, but after passing through the onboarding, your vibe-coding engineers will be be focussed on building product by vibe coding, right? “(what you will be doing...) Onboard customers, talk to them and travel to visit them.” So, a traveling sales rep. Your onboarding is pretending to be the product, and after that you are a traveling sales rep who vibe codes on the side?

by fsndz 2y ago

the worst programmer nowadays is the vibe coder. vibe coding is so overrated imo https://www.lycee.ai/blog/why-vibe-coding-is-overrated https://www.lycee.ai/blog/why-vibe-coding-is-overrated

sanex 2y ago

I've been writing code professionally for a decade but I've never written so much code in my free time because I can just vibe code it all. I wouldn't do it at work and I probably wouldn't trust a juniors vibes as much as my own but no tools have made me feel quite so powerful.

fsndz 2y ago
it's definitely nice for prototypes, but nothing more complex.
- eclipxe 2y ago
  I used to feel that way but my perspective over the last 6 months has changed greatly. You can absolutely build very complex things in this style
  - fsndz 2y ago
    show me an example of such a complex thing obtained after just writing prompts
    - godelski 2y ago
      Sometimes you enter a codebase and it looks like there's some obscure attempt to summon a Lovecraftian entity made of spaghetti and duct tape. Those codebases are both the shitiest and most complex stuff I've ever seen. They sure don't work well and I'm not even sure do a good job at summoning the old ones. I don't find LLM code significantly differing from that kind of monstrosity. It sure is complex.
  - Yoric 2y ago
    That's actually not a contradiction. As far as I can tell, you can build very complex prototypes. But unless these prototypes can be both trusted and maintained, that's all they are.
    - NitpickLawyer 2y ago
      > As far as I can tell, you can build very complex prototypes. I think GP was saying you can do more than prototypes. I agree, but it's not (yet) universal on where you can apply it. The best case for my projects has been in trivial but tedious "3rd party integrations". Say you have a mature product but client x wants integration with product z. We are now at a point where we can say "this is our internal model {json dump}, this is the 3rd party integration docs / example {code dump}, write interfaces for this". And it works most times. For things that are a bit more complicated, /architect first and then "now write it" w/ some things from the architect session in context also works. YMMV but don't dismiss it out of habit. Things are moving very fast in this space, and I choose to focus on what works now, not on what doesn't. I'm well aware not everything works, but when it does it saves a lot of time.
      - Yoric 2y ago
        We're talking about vibe coding, not just AI-assisted coding. Do you put this in production without review?
        NitpickLawyer 2y ago
        Oh, my bad, and TIL. I thought vibe coding is the trendy way of saying you're using LLM based code in tools like aider/cline/cursor/windsurf... edit: So I did a quick google, apparently it's this: > Vibe coding is an AI-dependent programming technique where a person describes a problem in a few sentences as a prompt to a large language model (LLM) tuned for coding. The LLM generates software, shifting the programmer’s role from manual coding to guiding, testing, and refining the AI-generated source code.[1][2][3] Vibe coding is claimed by its advocates to allow even amateur programmers to produce software without the extensive training and skills previously required for software engineering.[4] The term was introduced by Andrej Karpathy in February 2025[5][2][4][1] and listed in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary the following month as a "slang & trending" noun.[6] (from wiki) So ... now I'm confused again. I don't see the no testing / reviewing part in here. Is vibe coding the new AGI, where everyone has a different definition?
  - siva7 2y ago
    I wouldn't trust vibe coding to a junior. This would be a recipe for desaster. It's a skill best paired with a very senior dev who can correctly assess the output of the AI.
yodsanklai 2y ago
I never tried vibe code as described in this article, but I could see where it breaks. Initially, code works. Eventually, there's a bug, and the LLM isn't able to fix it. At that stage, you're on your own with a potentially large codebase which is totally new to you. Even on small projects, sometimes I'm tired, I just try to get the LLM do some refactoring for me or write a couple of tests. First, whatever the LLM writes, it's going to code review and I'm not submitting code that I haven't read and understood just to have colleagues complaining. Second, if the code doesn't work, it gets frustrating. For LLMs to help, I like to have a pretty clear idea of what I want, how the "right" code looks like so I can give more indications.
- sanex 2y ago
  Yeah it's totally a situation where obviously I can write it myself if I had the time so I just correct it as it goes. I also give it lots of guidelines on what I'm looking for but after some setup I can just watch TV and check on it every couple minutes.
- mrheosuper 2y ago
  The idea is "Rewriting is faster than debugging", so if something breaks, you ask LLM to rewrite it Not a fan of it.
android521 2y ago
Vibe coding works for experienced developers who give very detailed instructions including edge cases and potential issues or solutions. It is almost code already as it has already included all important code business logic (leaving the simple parts for Ai to fill in ). It is a maintenance disaster for junior developers or non-coders.

smokel 2y ago

Perhaps give it some time before judging too harshly?

fsndz 2y ago
vibe coding has been in the scene since the emergence of ChatGPT perhaps...
- vincenthwt 2y ago
  Much earlier. Ever since Google, I’ve been 'vibe' coding—just a different buzzword, I guess.

bitwize 2y ago

Vibe coding is now a skill requirement for real, actual jobs but, thankfully I guess, no place I want to work (yet). The other day I saw a YC24 company in the "financial services industry" with a "vibe coder position". A prerequisite for the position was at least 50% of your current code being generated by AI; vibe-coding experience was "non-negotiable". Traditional programmers need not apply. And you'd better be ready to grind, 12 hours a day up to 7 days a week. It pays up to $120,000 a year plus squat for equity and relocation to San Francisco is required. That's like, McDonald's money in San Francisco, so guess they figure running a vibe-coding sweatshop is a huge savings for them. Oh, and the cherry on top? The "financial service" this startup provides? Automated robocalls demanding money from debtors on behalf of debt collectors. https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/domu-technology-inc/jobs/hwWsGdU-vibe-coder-ai-engineer https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/domu-technology-inc/jo... YC has entered its villain arc.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
fsndz 2y ago
it's just a marketing stunt like prompt engineer with 200K salary back in the day. And the fact that you are talking about it and sharing the link to the company's profile means the stunt is working.
godelski 2y ago
> +3 years of experience. Ummmm..... what? This seems like it was written by someone who loves Dystopian Sci-Fi. Loves in the way that it is the future they want to live in.
dragonwriter 2y ago
“Your onboarding will be making collection calls.” So, your AI debt collection startup onboards engineers by...having them work as human call-center debt collectors? Is there really AI at all? Oh, but after passing through the onboarding, your vibe-coding engineers will be be focussed on building product by vibe coding, right? “(what you will be doing...) Onboard customers, talk to them and travel to visit them.” So, a traveling sales rep. Your onboarding is pretending to be the product, and after that you are a traveling sales rep who vibe codes on the side?