6 ms·

Author here if there are any questions...

by kens 2y ago

gargablegar 2y ago
Thank you for this, wonderful break down of some amazing history. I have watched that demo many many times in my pursuit of human computer interface thinking. I often wondered what happened to this piece of hardware… I still hold a deep belief that our current input methods are flawed(as amazing as they are) and we are in need of another leap forward. Anyway great read - thank you again.
xkriva11 2y ago
How did Engelbart render black text on a white background during his 1968 Demo, considering that the display technology at the time was based on vector CRTs, which typically produced glowing light rather than dark areas?
- kens 2y ago
  Output was displayed on 5" CRTs. High-resolution TV cameras (875-line) transmitted the CRT output to 17" monitors at each work station. By flipping a switch, the video could be inverted, so you could get either black lines on a light background or white lines on a black background. In other words, Engelbart invented dark mode :-)
  - xkriva11 2y ago
    Crazy. This clearly demonstrates their focus on output, even at the expense of cost-effectiveness. Was TREE-META directly linked to META-II?
    - kens 2y ago
      As far as I can tell, TREE-META and META II were unrelated compiler compilers.
      - kragen 2y ago
        I vaguely remember the published description of TREE-META crediting META-II, though I might be confabulating that. More broadly, I don't think any compiler-compiler is unrelated to META-II.
  - kragen 2y ago
    Plausibly someone else in Engelbart's lab, or a group of people, invented it. He always complained about people assigning him credit for the whole team's output.
DonHopkins 2y ago
Hey, great to see this, thank you so much, Ken! I'm lucky to own an original Engelbart mouse and chord keyset too, and I want to make usable replicas by 3d scanning them, making 3d printable models, and embedding metal and electronic parts so they work via bluetooth! The first step is to take it apart, measure and weigh the pieces, 3d scan it, and make a realistic 3d printable all plastic model (like an easy-to-print toy), but then refine it to make a high quality hybrid version with the exact same weight and feel and materials and electronics using resin printing and off the shelf hardware like the wheel, so it feels as realistic as possible and actually works! I think reproducing the actual weight and feel of the original is really important, the klunky feel of the wheel attached to the potentiometer hitting the rotation limit, how it scrapes across the table, etc. It's really amazing to hold and feel in your own hand, and it belongs in a hands-on museum like the Exploratorium, but it would quickly get destroyed. So it would be great if anyone who wants could 3d print their own quick and easy plastic replica, or assemble their own high quality functional replica too. I want to release the simple model and detailed plans to make your own for free, and think it would be a great kit or pre-assembled gadget that the Computer History Museum could sell in the gift store. It would also be cool to include an accelerometer and gyro in it so it would also work as a gestural game controller -- why not: it would be so cheap and easy to add! Here are some parts I'm considering using, but I'm new to this stuff -- what do people with more experience think? Microcontroller: ESP32-S3 module (USB + Bluetooth capabilities) Motion Sensor: MPU6050 6-axis accelerometer/gyroscope 2× 10KΩ potentiometers for X/Y tracking wheels 3× tactile buttons with pull-up resistors 3.7V LiPo battery (350-500mAh) TP4056 charging module USB-C connector (for both charging and wired mode) I'd love to discuss the project with you, a free open non-profit labor of love, and I hope we can collaborate! I just invested in a Bambu 3d printer and Raptor 3d scanner just for this project, so I'm ready to get started scanning and printing. Please drop me an email at: don@donhopkins.com
- bch 2y ago
  Hi Don. I think this stuff is great, and applaud your work, so don’t think of this as a slight (depending on the answer, of course): how practical is this? Again, if the answer is approximately “not at all practical”, that’s fair, but I guess I could also see it fitting somewhere on a spectrum like emacs vs vi, QWERTY vs Dvorak, etc…
ChrisGammell 2y ago
I always drop everything to read when there are new articles. Keep up the great work Ken!
unit149 2y ago
[dead]
thakoppno 2y ago
Are there any opportunities for the local community to help preserve this history? There’s a new development planned for the SRI site and I was hoping there’d be some honorary for that hallowed ground.
- kens 2y ago
  Christina Engelbart is working to preserve the history at the Doug Engelbart Institute: https://www.dougengelbart.org/ https://www.dougengelbart.org/
kragen 2y ago
Thanks for writing this! You misspelled "eidophor". Brad Neuberg (the founder of coworking) worked with Doug about 15 years ago to hook up one of these keysets to a then-current computer to use Augment. Any idea what happened to that work?
- kragen 2y ago
  (I see that "eidophor" is fixed.)

Author here if there are any questions...

by kens 2y ago

Author here if there are any questions...

Thank you for this, wonderful break down of some amazing history. I have watched that demo many many times in my pursuit of human computer interface thinking. I often wondered what happened to this piece of hardware… I still hold a deep belief that our current input methods are flawed(as amazing as they are) and we are in need of another leap forward. Anyway great read - thank you again.

xkriva11 2y ago

How did Engelbart render black text on a white background during his 1968 Demo, considering that the display technology at the time was based on vector CRTs, which typically produced glowing light rather than dark areas?

kens 2y ago
Output was displayed on 5" CRTs. High-resolution TV cameras (875-line) transmitted the CRT output to 17" monitors at each work station. By flipping a switch, the video could be inverted, so you could get either black lines on a light background or white lines on a black background. In other words, Engelbart invented dark mode :-)
- xkriva11 2y ago
  Crazy. This clearly demonstrates their focus on output, even at the expense of cost-effectiveness. Was TREE-META directly linked to META-II?
  - kens 2y ago
    As far as I can tell, TREE-META and META II were unrelated compiler compilers.
    - kragen 2y ago
      I vaguely remember the published description of TREE-META crediting META-II, though I might be confabulating that. More broadly, I don't think any compiler-compiler is unrelated to META-II.
- kragen 2y ago
  Plausibly someone else in Engelbart's lab, or a group of people, invented it. He always complained about people assigning him credit for the whole team's output.

DonHopkins 2y ago

Hey, great to see this, thank you so much, Ken! I'm lucky to own an original Engelbart mouse and chord keyset too, and I want to make usable replicas by 3d scanning them, making 3d printable models, and embedding metal and electronic parts so they work via bluetooth! The first step is to take it apart, measure and weigh the pieces, 3d scan it, and make a realistic 3d printable all plastic model (like an easy-to-print toy), but then refine it to make a high quality hybrid version with the exact same weight and feel and materials and electronics using resin printing and off the shelf hardware like the wheel, so it feels as realistic as possible and actually works! I think reproducing the actual weight and feel of the original is really important, the klunky feel of the wheel attached to the potentiometer hitting the rotation limit, how it scrapes across the table, etc. It's really amazing to hold and feel in your own hand, and it belongs in a hands-on museum like the Exploratorium, but it would quickly get destroyed. So it would be great if anyone who wants could 3d print their own quick and easy plastic replica, or assemble their own high quality functional replica too. I want to release the simple model and detailed plans to make your own for free, and think it would be a great kit or pre-assembled gadget that the Computer History Museum could sell in the gift store. It would also be cool to include an accelerometer and gyro in it so it would also work as a gestural game controller -- why not: it would be so cheap and easy to add! Here are some parts I'm considering using, but I'm new to this stuff -- what do people with more experience think? Microcontroller: ESP32-S3 module (USB + Bluetooth capabilities) Motion Sensor: MPU6050 6-axis accelerometer/gyroscope 2× 10KΩ potentiometers for X/Y tracking wheels 3× tactile buttons with pull-up resistors 3.7V LiPo battery (350-500mAh) TP4056 charging module USB-C connector (for both charging and wired mode) I'd love to discuss the project with you, a free open non-profit labor of love, and I hope we can collaborate! I just invested in a Bambu 3d printer and Raptor 3d scanner just for this project, so I'm ready to get started scanning and printing. Please drop me an email at: don@donhopkins.com

bch 2y ago
Hi Don. I think this stuff is great, and applaud your work, so don’t think of this as a slight (depending on the answer, of course): how practical is this? Again, if the answer is approximately “not at all practical”, that’s fair, but I guess I could also see it fitting somewhere on a spectrum like emacs vs vi, QWERTY vs Dvorak, etc…

ChrisGammell 2y ago

I always drop everything to read when there are new articles. Keep up the great work Ken!

unit149 2y ago

[dead]

thakoppno 2y ago

Are there any opportunities for the local community to help preserve this history? There’s a new development planned for the SRI site and I was hoping there’d be some honorary for that hallowed ground.

kens 2y ago
Christina Engelbart is working to preserve the history at the Doug Engelbart Institute: https://www.dougengelbart.org/ https://www.dougengelbart.org/

kragen 2y ago

Thanks for writing this! You misspelled "eidophor". Brad Neuberg (the founder of coworking) worked with Doug about 15 years ago to hook up one of these keysets to a then-current computer to use Augment. Any idea what happened to that work?

kragen 2y ago
(I see that "eidophor" is fixed.)