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I can't believe we're at the point in history where criticizing our president is labeled "potential terrorism" and used to punish people. Free speech is litera

I can't believe we're at the point in history where criticizing our president is labeled "potential terrorism" and used to punish people. Free speech is literally the first right granted by the bill of rights. Criticism of our president has _always_ been allowed.

comrade1234 2y ago
Supposedly for the French guy that you are referring to it was because he had confidential information on his phone from JPL, and not for the reason the French minister was saying. But I find that hard to believe - that someone in CBP would recognize what’s confidential government information, and then just deport him and not arrest him for spying…. I did find it curious though that the French guy himself never said it was for his messages about trump - only some people in the French government were saying that.
- neuroelectron 2y ago
  Yet none of this is ever cleared up in the public sphere. Obviously something more is going on between USA and France.
  - alpinisme 2y ago
    I don’t know that it’s “obvious” that anything more is happening than the simplest explanation that the current administration (and its lackeys at the lower rungs of government power) is delighting in humiliating and disempowering its critics, domestic and foreign.
    - neuroelectron 2y ago
      Yes because that always happens. Did you not notice the last decade of negative press on Trump and other Republicans? That's just noise and frankly I'm baffled I have to explain this. France is probably one of the most capable military intelligence centers in Europe, have a large amount of nuclear power and supporting infrastructure and is a Muslim stronghold in some areas. So clearly, something more than just surface level WWE-style drama is going on.
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    I think a lot of news stories are pushed out too soon without proper context, leading to sensationalized headlines that fuel the doomers. Maybe some of these stories shouldn't even be news... because the details that come later usually turn it into a nothingburger. Like of course someone is going to be detained if the government legitimately believes they could be connected to a terrorist, nobody is getting upset at THAT. And if these news stories WERE actually something that was happening regularly, it wouldn't even BE news anymore. The mere fact that it's a headline is supposed to mean it's something NOT normal that's going on.
    - roxolotl 2y ago
      Right but you would expect an administration of the party which likes to yell about free speech to come out and try to reduce the concerns about free speech restrictions. As a self labeled free speech crusader Musk should be absolutely distraught that the administration is considering protests against Tesla terrorism. The comments above boil down to: when someone shows you who they are believe them.
      - neuroelectron 2y ago
        Burning teslas is literally the definition of terrorism.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > I did find it curious though that the French guy himself never said it was for his messages about trump I wouldn’t want to be the next public target for Musk and Trump, either.
- wombatpm 2y ago
  So he had confidential US documents and they did not arrest him? Or he had confidential French documents, the CBP recognized that, and sent him back? The initial stories reported messages criticizing Trump and his science cuts. From a scientist, going to a science convention. CBP being thuggish is the simplest and stupidest explanation making it most likely.
- square_usual 2y ago
  It's not just the French researcher (and I agree with you about the CBP's suspect official statement); three members of a British punk band were also recently denied entry for an "another issue, which they wouldn’t disclose": https://consequence.net/2025/03/uk-subs-detained-denied-entry-us/ https://consequence.net/2025/03/uk-subs-detained-denied-entr...
- quantified 2y ago
  Source for this supposition? This is the first I've heard of it
notdarkyet 2y ago
If you read the article, these people are not citizens of the united states...
- southernplaces7 2y ago
  The first amendment (and to my knowledge most of them) at least in theory if not in shit-smeared practice, apply to all people within US borders, not just citizens. In any case, it's an absurd argument to essentially say, "meh, he was a foreigner, it's fine".
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    > The first amendment (and to my knowledge most of them) at least in theory if not in shit-smeared practice, apply to all people within US borders Moreover, the First Amendment is held (not just philosophically, but this is the legal theory behind its incorporation against the states under the 14th Amendment) to be declarative of a universal right (a right "fundamental to ordered liberty"). It is therefore monstrous to try to excuse its violation by the US government against any person subject to its power under any circumstances.
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  > these people are not citizens of the united states Lovely stance... Also, the headline question is if it's safe to travel there.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    Being denied entry is not a threat to your safety.
    - anonzzzies 2y ago
      That depends what happens between being denied and getting back into a plane. Also, the current situation is not a guarantee for the future.
readthenotes1 2y ago
It is weird... The 'potential terrorist' was sent back because "US authorities accused the scientist of sending "hateful and conspiratorial messages" related to the Trump administration's treatment of scientists and scientific research." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/french-scientist-denied-entry-into-us-after-immigration-officials-find-texts-which-conveyed-hatred-of-trump/ar-AA1BkXtJ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/french-scientist-denied... That's dramatically different than going to the funeral for a terrorist leader, or making statements supporting terror-bringing organizations...
scottoreily 2y ago
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dfawcus 2y ago
Isn't this something which Craig Murray was highlighting in the context of the Julian Assange extradition case? Namely that the US Government argues that the 1st Amendment "free speech" right only applies to US Citizens. The deal to drop the extradition of Assange only came about after the UK Judge quizzed in on if Assange would be able to depend upon that protection, rather than simply assert it (and have it denied). So I'd not be surprised at a French citizen not having "free speech" in the USA.

comrade1234 2y ago

Supposedly for the French guy that you are referring to it was because he had confidential information on his phone from JPL, and not for the reason the French minister was saying. But I find that hard to believe - that someone in CBP would recognize what’s confidential government information, and then just deport him and not arrest him for spying…. I did find it curious though that the French guy himself never said it was for his messages about trump - only some people in the French government were saying that.

neuroelectron 2y ago
Yet none of this is ever cleared up in the public sphere. Obviously something more is going on between USA and France.
- alpinisme 2y ago
  I don’t know that it’s “obvious” that anything more is happening than the simplest explanation that the current administration (and its lackeys at the lower rungs of government power) is delighting in humiliating and disempowering its critics, domestic and foreign.
  - neuroelectron 2y ago
    Yes because that always happens. Did you not notice the last decade of negative press on Trump and other Republicans? That's just noise and frankly I'm baffled I have to explain this. France is probably one of the most capable military intelligence centers in Europe, have a large amount of nuclear power and supporting infrastructure and is a Muslim stronghold in some areas. So clearly, something more than just surface level WWE-style drama is going on.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  I think a lot of news stories are pushed out too soon without proper context, leading to sensationalized headlines that fuel the doomers. Maybe some of these stories shouldn't even be news... because the details that come later usually turn it into a nothingburger. Like of course someone is going to be detained if the government legitimately believes they could be connected to a terrorist, nobody is getting upset at THAT. And if these news stories WERE actually something that was happening regularly, it wouldn't even BE news anymore. The mere fact that it's a headline is supposed to mean it's something NOT normal that's going on.
  - roxolotl 2y ago
    Right but you would expect an administration of the party which likes to yell about free speech to come out and try to reduce the concerns about free speech restrictions. As a self labeled free speech crusader Musk should be absolutely distraught that the administration is considering protests against Tesla terrorism. The comments above boil down to: when someone shows you who they are believe them.
    - neuroelectron 2y ago
      Burning teslas is literally the definition of terrorism.
ceejayoz 2y ago
> I did find it curious though that the French guy himself never said it was for his messages about trump I wouldn’t want to be the next public target for Musk and Trump, either.
wombatpm 2y ago
So he had confidential US documents and they did not arrest him? Or he had confidential French documents, the CBP recognized that, and sent him back? The initial stories reported messages criticizing Trump and his science cuts. From a scientist, going to a science convention. CBP being thuggish is the simplest and stupidest explanation making it most likely.
square_usual 2y ago
It's not just the French researcher (and I agree with you about the CBP's suspect official statement); three members of a British punk band were also recently denied entry for an "another issue, which they wouldn’t disclose": https://consequence.net/2025/03/uk-subs-detained-denied-entry-us/ https://consequence.net/2025/03/uk-subs-detained-denied-entr...
quantified 2y ago
Source for this supposition? This is the first I've heard of it

notdarkyet 2y ago

If you read the article, these people are not citizens of the united states...

southernplaces7 2y ago
The first amendment (and to my knowledge most of them) at least in theory if not in shit-smeared practice, apply to all people within US borders, not just citizens. In any case, it's an absurd argument to essentially say, "meh, he was a foreigner, it's fine".
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  > The first amendment (and to my knowledge most of them) at least in theory if not in shit-smeared practice, apply to all people within US borders Moreover, the First Amendment is held (not just philosophically, but this is the legal theory behind its incorporation against the states under the 14th Amendment) to be declarative of a universal right (a right "fundamental to ordered liberty"). It is therefore monstrous to try to excuse its violation by the US government against any person subject to its power under any circumstances.
anonzzzies 2y ago
> these people are not citizens of the united states Lovely stance... Also, the headline question is if it's safe to travel there.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  Being denied entry is not a threat to your safety.
  - anonzzzies 2y ago
    That depends what happens between being denied and getting back into a plane. Also, the current situation is not a guarantee for the future.

readthenotes1 2y ago

It is weird... The 'potential terrorist' was sent back because "US authorities accused the scientist of sending "hateful and conspiratorial messages" related to the Trump administration's treatment of scientists and scientific research." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/french-scientist-denied-entry-into-us-after-immigration-officials-find-texts-which-conveyed-hatred-of-trump/ar-AA1BkXtJ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/french-scientist-denied... That's dramatically different than going to the funeral for a terrorist leader, or making statements supporting terror-bringing organizations...

scottoreily 2y ago

[dead]

dfawcus 2y ago

Isn't this something which Craig Murray was highlighting in the context of the Julian Assange extradition case? Namely that the US Government argues that the 1st Amendment "free speech" right only applies to US Citizens. The deal to drop the extradition of Assange only came about after the UK Judge quizzed in on if Assange would be able to depend upon that protection, rather than simply assert it (and have it denied). So I'd not be surprised at a French citizen not having "free speech" in the USA.