5 ms·

Recommendation for non-DOS/Unix open source OS outside x86/X64

44 points by anta40 2y ago

I know some interesting non-DOS/UNIX-based open source OS like HelenOS, MenuetOS, or Kolibri. They are X86/X64 only, though. Are there similar things say for ARM/RISC/etc ?

486sx33 2y ago
There is an arm version of pretty much every major Linux distribution now. I’ve used mint, debian, and kali all on arm. Also, see below https://distroware.gitlab.io/lists/RunsOnARM/ https://distroware.gitlab.io/lists/RunsOnARM/
- anta40 2y ago
  My mistake. Guess what I meant is UNIX and UNIX-like. Nothing personal against Linux, but I'd like to see something new, like TempleOS, for example.
  - 486sx33 2y ago
    There is quite a selection in the link I posted… for example FreeBSD/ARM
    - p_ing 2y ago
      FreeBSD is a direct descendant of BSD which is UNIX. The BSDs are about as close as you can get to UNIX today.
evanjrowley 2y ago
Technically you can run Redox-OS on a Raspberry Pi 3 B+ (ARM), but it still works best on x86_64: https://doc.redox-os.org/book/raspi.html https://doc.redox-os.org/book/raspi.html If you decide you miss DOS, then you can also use the DOS emulator available on Redox-OS. It's not Linux but there are some linux-inspired stuff there, including apps from the Cosmic desktop environment. Both announced here: https://www.redox-os.org/news/release-0.9.0/ https://www.redox-os.org/news/release-0.9.0/
- anta40 2y ago
  "We are not a Linux/BSD clone, or POSIX-compliant..." and "It should be able to run most Linux/BSD programs with minimal modifications" Hmm weird. Will give it a try, anyway.
mepian 2y ago
The MIT Lisp machine system: https://tumbleweed.nu/lm-3/ https://tumbleweed.nu/lm-3/ Mezzano, a much more recent OS written in Common Lisp that runs on Arm rather than special hardware: https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano
yann-gael 2y ago
You could try MorphOS or AROS, which turn your (old) Mac and others into Amigas
LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
Sculpt yourself some https://genode.org/ https://genode.org/
snvzz 2y ago
There's Niklaus Wirth's Oberon[0]. 0. https://www.projectoberon.net/ https://www.projectoberon.net/
dlcarrier 2y ago
There's RISC OS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_OS It was written for the Acorn computers that were the original use of the ARM architecture. It's still around and is pretty lean, despite being complete with a GUI and network capabilities.
- xet7 2y ago
  RISC OS Direct has modern webbrowser, Iris: https://www.riscosdev.com/direct/ https://www.riscosdev.com/direct/
Amlal 2y ago
I'm surprised that nobody has talked about HaikuOS, I used to daily drive for a while before returning to Linux or OS X, depending on what I do.
- bauruine 2y ago
  >Supported platforms: x86, 32-bit and 64-bit Because it's not relate to the question. Edit: Sorry they support other platforms. See next comment.
  - oidar 2y ago
    https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/port_status https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/port_status
    - bauruine 2y ago
      Thanks I haven't seen that. I take it all back. Maybe they could add a note on their download page. https://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku/r1beta5/ https://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku/r1beta5/
      - paxcoder 2y ago
        [dead]
bohdanqq 2y ago
HelenOS is multi-platform. Their certificate expired but from their site: > HelenOS runs on eight different processor architectures Pretty sure ARM is one of those.
raggi 2y ago
https://fuchsia.dev/ https://fuchsia.dev/
slicktux 2y ago
XINU (Xinu Is not UNIX) OS…good book on it too for Operating System design! https://xinu.cs.purdue.edu/ https://xinu.cs.purdue.edu/
- notorandit 2y ago
  Exactly like xv6, Xinu is rather unix-ish. Still very very interesting to study. https://github.com/mit-pdos/xv6-riscv https://github.com/mit-pdos/xv6-riscv https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2024/ https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2024/
mappu 2y ago
ToaruOS has an ARMv8 port: https://github.com/klange/toaruos https://github.com/klange/toaruos and Serenity has an ARM and RISC-V ports: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity ; although I think you would call them Unix-like. Haiku has tier-2 ports to ARM, RISC-V, and SPARC: https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/port_status https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/port_status ReactOS has an ARM32 port but the ARM64 one is not usable yet. Skift apparently runs on ARM and RISC-V: https://skiftos.org/ https://skiftos.org/
lboc 2y ago
Are we to assume you want it to run on actual hardware? I imagine there are a number of OSes that qualify if emulation is acceptable. One I like: http://www.vm370.org/ http://www.vm370.org/ Full S/370 assembler source included.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  Indeed. Very alien to Unix users. Also, the idea of virtual machine is totally different from what we currently use in KVM.
vandyswa 2y ago
RSX-280 for the Z280 CPU: https://github.com/hperaza/RSX280 https://github.com/hperaza/RSX280 Nothing like DOS. Nothing like UNIX.
wormius 2y ago
Plan 9 - one version of which is 9front, which says this: "Multiple installation media are provided for PC, Raspberry Pi, MNT Reform, and QEMU. For PC, burn an .iso file to CD, or dd it directly to USB media. For Raspberry Pi or MNT Reform, dd an .img file directly to sdcard. The pi.img file can be used for Raspberry Pi 1, 2, and 3. The pi3.img file can be used for Raspberry Pi 3 and 4. QEMU images are provided in QCOW2 format." https://9front.org/releases/ https://9front.org/releases/
- rewgs 2y ago
  OP said non-Unix. I'd say that the successor to Unix is Unix-y enough to not qualify for this thread.
  - opless 2y ago
    It’s not as unix-y as you think. Go try it
    - bandie91 2y ago
      AFAIA plan9 takes the original unix ideas further than Unix or its descendents. in this light, plan9 is more unixy than unix.
      - opless 2y ago
        In two aspects only 1. Everything is a file. 2. A command does only one thing well There's no init, fstab, etc etc etc. Very little of your Unix muscle memory will work.
    - rewgs 2y ago
      I've used it plenty ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's an odd duck and very interesting but the Unix roots are still clear IMO.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
andsoitis 2y ago
Inferno - https://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/ https://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/ Description from Wikipedia: “Inferno is a distributed operating system started at Bell Labs and now developed and maintained by Vita Nuova Holdings as free software under the MIT License. Inferno was based on the experience gained with Plan 9 from Bell Labs, and the further research of Bell Labs into operating systems, languages, on-the-fly compilers, graphics, security, networking and portability.”
mycall 2y ago
Genode is interesting
rizky05 2y ago
[dead]
pajko 2y ago
RISC-V, ARM in development: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AROS_Research_Operating_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AROS_Research_Operating_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MorphOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MorphOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illumos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illumos
- 2809 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    Explain?
    - 2809 2y ago
      I'm not going to go into it but you can look up most of the information about this dating back 25 years. As someone who was around at the time in that community, and was in certain locations of interest at the time, its best to avoid and use the public projects like AROS etc.
      - dredmorbius 2y ago
        Nonpayment issues, or something else? <https://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2004-11-00063-DE.html https://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2004-11-00063-DE.html> I'd appreciate if you could link to something definite rather than play 20 questions over vague insinuations.
jdougan 2y ago
There have been a number of passes at embedded Smalltalks. Eg. https://hackaday.com/2020/07/12/making-smalltalk-on-a-raspberry-pi/ https://hackaday.com/2020/07/12/making-smalltalk-on-a-raspbe... Back in the day, Tek oscilloscopes ran ST on the metal.
cydodon 2y ago
EUMEL maybe? https://6xq.net/eumel/ https://6xq.net/eumel/ (Z80, M68000 and later x86 as well)
pjmlp 2y ago
Project Oberon, https://www.projectoberon.net https://www.projectoberon.net The evolution of Oberon based OSes, Ethos, https://www.research-collection.ethz.ch/handle/20.500.11850/140827 https://www.research-collection.ethz.ch/handle/20.500.11850/... Active Oberon which is the Oberon variant I prefer, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Oberon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Oberon https://gitlab.inf.ethz.ch/felixf/oberon https://gitlab.inf.ethz.ch/felixf/oberon Some screenshots at my article, take it while the site still exists, https://www.progtools.org/article.php?name=oberon&section=compilers&type=tutorial https://www.progtools.org/article.php?name=oberon&section=co... SPIN, done in Modula-3 https://www-spin.cs.washington.edu/external/overview.html https://www-spin.cs.washington.edu/external/overview.html Singularity, https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/singularity/?from=https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/singularity https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/singularity... https://github.com/lastweek/source-singularity https://github.com/lastweek/source-singularity Midori, although no source code, the blog posts, existing talks and internal session at Microsof do provide some nice overview, https://joeduffyblog.com/2015/11/03/blogging-about-midori/ https://joeduffyblog.com/2015/11/03/blogging-about-midori/ "The Midori Operating System Overview" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37WgsoZpf3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37WgsoZpf3k "Safe Systems Programming in C# and .NET" https://www.infoq.com/presentations/csharp-systems-programming/ https://www.infoq.com/presentations/csharp-systems-programmi... "Safe Systems Software and the Future of Computing" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuD7SCqHB7k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuD7SCqHB7k Xerox PARC Mesa, used on the Xerox Star OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star https://computerhistory.org/blog/xerox-alto-source-code/ https://computerhistory.org/blog/xerox-alto-source-code/ Xerox PARC Cedar, used on Dorado platforms http://toastytech.com/guis/cedar.html http://toastytech.com/guis/cedar.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4 https://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/xerox/parc/cedar/The_Cedar_Manual_Version_4.2_Jun83.pdf https://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/xerox/parc/cedar/The... https://worrydream.com/refs/Swineheart_1986_-_A_Structural_View_of_the_Cedar_Programming_Environment.pdf https://worrydream.com/refs/Swineheart_1986_-_A_Structural_V... http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/CSL-83-11_The_Cedar_Programming_Environment_A_Midterm_Report_and_Examination.pdf http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/CSL-83-1... Xerox PARC Smalltalk, original documentation can be taken from http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks.html http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks.html - Smalltalk-80, Bits of History, Words of Advice - Smalltalk-80: The Language and its Implementation - Smalltalk-80, The Interactive Programming Environment Squeak and Pharos linage, https://squeak.org/ https://squeak.org/ https://pharo.org/ https://pharo.org/ Xerox PARC Interlisp-D, with Medley https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1056743.1056745 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1056743.1056745 https://interlisp.org/ https://interlisp.org/ House, written in Haskell https://programatica.cs.pdx.edu/House/ https://programatica.cs.pdx.edu/House/ MirageOS, written in OCaml, partially used by Docker (TCP/IP stack), and Xen Hypervisor https://mirage.io/ https://mirage.io/ https://mirage.io/blog/2022-04-06.vpnkit https://mirage.io/blog/2022-04-06.vpnkit https://xenproject.org/projects/mirage-os/ https://xenproject.org/projects/mirage-os/ AmigaOS, http://toastytech.com/guis/indexamiga.html http://toastytech.com/guis/indexamiga.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga https://www.amigaos.net/content/1/features https://www.amigaos.net/content/1/features https://aros.sourceforge.io/ https://aros.sourceforge.io/ Solo in Concurrent Pascal, The solo operating system: A concurrent pascal program https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:vb843ff4581/vb843ff4581.pdf https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:vb843ff4581/vb843ff45... Lillith in Modula-2 https://bitsavers.org/pdf/eth/lilith/ETH7646_Lilith_A_Workstation_Computer_For_Modula-2_1984.pdf https://bitsavers.org/pdf/eth/lilith/ETH7646_Lilith_A_Workst... https://www.modula2.org/modula2-history.php https://www.modula2.org/modula2-history.php Now go out and explore, UNIX is not the be all, end all of how an OS is supposed to be, neither is C the ultimate systems programming language.
wenyong3124 2y ago
[dead]
gjvc 2y ago
see also https://wiki.osdev.org/Expanded_Main_Page https://wiki.osdev.org/Expanded_Main_Page
DrNosferatu 2y ago
I see many OSes here that are missing some lengthy, but apparently not extremely complicated - and quite well defined - parts / components / modules. I wonder if letting loose a coding LLM on them with clear goals and a feedback loop, could bring them to (at least near) completion?
- BearOso 2y ago
  Probably not helpfully. There isn't much like this to be found in any training data. The required code would be too novel, and I predict an LLM would hallucinate a good 2/3.
  - DrNosferatu 2y ago
    My point is to ask the LLM to implement the well-defined design documents. And tests for verification.
  - DrNosferatu 2y ago
    Wine improvement could be aided with LLMs by monitoring the output of a windows VM running and see what exactly to display, and what exactly to have in working (not program) RAM. Same goes for perfect OpenSource Office with MSOffice compatibility: MSOffice is running on Windows is continuously monitored for reference, showing exactly what needs to be outputted. Have this in a feedback and reinforcement loop.
toast0 2y ago
I've got a hobby OS that's currently x86 32-bit only. amd64 and arm64 are on my roadmap, but if all goes well, it's going to be the same experience on all three platforms, so arm64 won't be anymore exciting than x86 32-bit. Other than, you could run it on a raspberry pi or maybe an arm apple. I imagine most hobby OSes are looking at arm support vs adding something else, and arm support is going to be more fiddly and have less to show for it. I haven't found much time to work on mine lately, but other things are way more important like getting my virtio-net driver and the v86 virtio-net device to work together; having networking in https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=crazierl https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=crazierl would be really neat. Running on a pi would be neat too, but a browser demo is way more accessible.
johnklos 2y ago
TOPS on old PDP hardware (or an emulator) is quite interesting. If nothing else, it gives an appreciation for the age of many of the ideas that ended up in later OSes like CP/M and MS-DOS.

44 points by anta40 2y ago

I know some interesting non-DOS/UNIX-based open source OS like HelenOS, MenuetOS, or Kolibri. They are X86/X64 only, though. Are there similar things say for ARM/RISC/etc ?

486sx33 2y ago

There is an arm version of pretty much every major Linux distribution now. I’ve used mint, debian, and kali all on arm. Also, see below https://distroware.gitlab.io/lists/RunsOnARM/ https://distroware.gitlab.io/lists/RunsOnARM/

anta40 2y ago
My mistake. Guess what I meant is UNIX and UNIX-like. Nothing personal against Linux, but I'd like to see something new, like TempleOS, for example.
- 486sx33 2y ago
  There is quite a selection in the link I posted… for example FreeBSD/ARM
  - p_ing 2y ago
    FreeBSD is a direct descendant of BSD which is UNIX. The BSDs are about as close as you can get to UNIX today.

evanjrowley 2y ago

Technically you can run Redox-OS on a Raspberry Pi 3 B+ (ARM), but it still works best on x86_64: https://doc.redox-os.org/book/raspi.html https://doc.redox-os.org/book/raspi.html If you decide you miss DOS, then you can also use the DOS emulator available on Redox-OS. It's not Linux but there are some linux-inspired stuff there, including apps from the Cosmic desktop environment. Both announced here: https://www.redox-os.org/news/release-0.9.0/ https://www.redox-os.org/news/release-0.9.0/

anta40 2y ago
"We are not a Linux/BSD clone, or POSIX-compliant..." and "It should be able to run most Linux/BSD programs with minimal modifications" Hmm weird. Will give it a try, anyway.

mepian 2y ago

The MIT Lisp machine system: https://tumbleweed.nu/lm-3/ https://tumbleweed.nu/lm-3/ Mezzano, a much more recent OS written in Common Lisp that runs on Arm rather than special hardware: https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano

yann-gael 2y ago

You could try MorphOS or AROS, which turn your (old) Mac and others into Amigas

LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago

Sculpt yourself some https://genode.org/ https://genode.org/

snvzz 2y ago

There's Niklaus Wirth's Oberon[0]. 0. https://www.projectoberon.net/ https://www.projectoberon.net/

dlcarrier 2y ago

There's RISC OS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_OS It was written for the Acorn computers that were the original use of the ARM architecture. It's still around and is pretty lean, despite being complete with a GUI and network capabilities.

xet7 2y ago
RISC OS Direct has modern webbrowser, Iris: https://www.riscosdev.com/direct/ https://www.riscosdev.com/direct/

Amlal 2y ago

I'm surprised that nobody has talked about HaikuOS, I used to daily drive for a while before returning to Linux or OS X, depending on what I do.

bauruine 2y ago
>Supported platforms: x86, 32-bit and 64-bit Because it's not relate to the question. Edit: Sorry they support other platforms. See next comment.
- oidar 2y ago
  https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/port_status https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/port_status
  - bauruine 2y ago
    Thanks I haven't seen that. I take it all back. Maybe they could add a note on their download page. https://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku/r1beta5/ https://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku/r1beta5/
    - paxcoder 2y ago
      [dead]

bohdanqq 2y ago

HelenOS is multi-platform. Their certificate expired but from their site: > HelenOS runs on eight different processor architectures Pretty sure ARM is one of those.

raggi 2y ago

https://fuchsia.dev/ https://fuchsia.dev/

slicktux 2y ago

XINU (Xinu Is not UNIX) OS…good book on it too for Operating System design! https://xinu.cs.purdue.edu/ https://xinu.cs.purdue.edu/

notorandit 2y ago
Exactly like xv6, Xinu is rather unix-ish. Still very very interesting to study. https://github.com/mit-pdos/xv6-riscv https://github.com/mit-pdos/xv6-riscv https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2024/ https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2024/

mappu 2y ago

ToaruOS has an ARMv8 port: https://github.com/klange/toaruos https://github.com/klange/toaruos and Serenity has an ARM and RISC-V ports: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity ; although I think you would call them Unix-like. Haiku has tier-2 ports to ARM, RISC-V, and SPARC: https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/port_status https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/port_status ReactOS has an ARM32 port but the ARM64 one is not usable yet. Skift apparently runs on ARM and RISC-V: https://skiftos.org/ https://skiftos.org/

lboc 2y ago

Are we to assume you want it to run on actual hardware? I imagine there are a number of OSes that qualify if emulation is acceptable. One I like: http://www.vm370.org/ http://www.vm370.org/ Full S/370 assembler source included.

rbanffy 2y ago
Indeed. Very alien to Unix users. Also, the idea of virtual machine is totally different from what we currently use in KVM.

vandyswa 2y ago

RSX-280 for the Z280 CPU: https://github.com/hperaza/RSX280 https://github.com/hperaza/RSX280 Nothing like DOS. Nothing like UNIX.

wormius 2y ago

Plan 9 - one version of which is 9front, which says this: "Multiple installation media are provided for PC, Raspberry Pi, MNT Reform, and QEMU. For PC, burn an .iso file to CD, or dd it directly to USB media. For Raspberry Pi or MNT Reform, dd an .img file directly to sdcard. The pi.img file can be used for Raspberry Pi 1, 2, and 3. The pi3.img file can be used for Raspberry Pi 3 and 4. QEMU images are provided in QCOW2 format." https://9front.org/releases/ https://9front.org/releases/

rewgs 2y ago
OP said non-Unix. I'd say that the successor to Unix is Unix-y enough to not qualify for this thread.
- opless 2y ago
  It’s not as unix-y as you think. Go try it
  - bandie91 2y ago
    AFAIA plan9 takes the original unix ideas further than Unix or its descendents. in this light, plan9 is more unixy than unix.
    - opless 2y ago
      In two aspects only 1. Everything is a file. 2. A command does only one thing well There's no init, fstab, etc etc etc. Very little of your Unix muscle memory will work.
  - rewgs 2y ago
    I've used it plenty ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's an odd duck and very interesting but the Unix roots are still clear IMO.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

andsoitis 2y ago

Inferno - https://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/ https://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/ Description from Wikipedia: “Inferno is a distributed operating system started at Bell Labs and now developed and maintained by Vita Nuova Holdings as free software under the MIT License. Inferno was based on the experience gained with Plan 9 from Bell Labs, and the further research of Bell Labs into operating systems, languages, on-the-fly compilers, graphics, security, networking and portability.”

mycall 2y ago

Genode is interesting

rizky05 2y ago

[dead]

pajko 2y ago

RISC-V, ARM in development: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AROS_Research_Operating_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AROS_Research_Operating_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MorphOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MorphOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS_4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illumos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illumos

2809 2y ago
[flagged]
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  Explain?
  - 2809 2y ago
    I'm not going to go into it but you can look up most of the information about this dating back 25 years. As someone who was around at the time in that community, and was in certain locations of interest at the time, its best to avoid and use the public projects like AROS etc.
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      Nonpayment issues, or something else? <https://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2004-11-00063-DE.html https://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2004-11-00063-DE.html> I'd appreciate if you could link to something definite rather than play 20 questions over vague insinuations.

jdougan 2y ago

There have been a number of passes at embedded Smalltalks. Eg. https://hackaday.com/2020/07/12/making-smalltalk-on-a-raspberry-pi/ https://hackaday.com/2020/07/12/making-smalltalk-on-a-raspbe... Back in the day, Tek oscilloscopes ran ST on the metal.

cydodon 2y ago

EUMEL maybe? https://6xq.net/eumel/ https://6xq.net/eumel/ (Z80, M68000 and later x86 as well)

pjmlp 2y ago

Project Oberon, https://www.projectoberon.net https://www.projectoberon.net The evolution of Oberon based OSes, Ethos, https://www.research-collection.ethz.ch/handle/20.500.11850/140827 https://www.research-collection.ethz.ch/handle/20.500.11850/... Active Oberon which is the Oberon variant I prefer, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Oberon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Oberon https://gitlab.inf.ethz.ch/felixf/oberon https://gitlab.inf.ethz.ch/felixf/oberon Some screenshots at my article, take it while the site still exists, https://www.progtools.org/article.php?name=oberon&section=compilers&type=tutorial https://www.progtools.org/article.php?name=oberon&section=co... SPIN, done in Modula-3 https://www-spin.cs.washington.edu/external/overview.html https://www-spin.cs.washington.edu/external/overview.html Singularity, https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/singularity/?from=https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/singularity https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/singularity... https://github.com/lastweek/source-singularity https://github.com/lastweek/source-singularity Midori, although no source code, the blog posts, existing talks and internal session at Microsof do provide some nice overview, https://joeduffyblog.com/2015/11/03/blogging-about-midori/ https://joeduffyblog.com/2015/11/03/blogging-about-midori/ "The Midori Operating System Overview" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37WgsoZpf3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37WgsoZpf3k "Safe Systems Programming in C# and .NET" https://www.infoq.com/presentations/csharp-systems-programming/ https://www.infoq.com/presentations/csharp-systems-programmi... "Safe Systems Software and the Future of Computing" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuD7SCqHB7k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuD7SCqHB7k Xerox PARC Mesa, used on the Xerox Star OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Star https://computerhistory.org/blog/xerox-alto-source-code/ https://computerhistory.org/blog/xerox-alto-source-code/ Xerox PARC Cedar, used on Dorado platforms http://toastytech.com/guis/cedar.html http://toastytech.com/guis/cedar.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dt7NG38V4 https://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/xerox/parc/cedar/The_Cedar_Manual_Version_4.2_Jun83.pdf https://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/xerox/parc/cedar/The... https://worrydream.com/refs/Swineheart_1986_-_A_Structural_View_of_the_Cedar_Programming_Environment.pdf https://worrydream.com/refs/Swineheart_1986_-_A_Structural_V... http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/CSL-83-11_The_Cedar_Programming_Environment_A_Midterm_Report_and_Examination.pdf http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/CSL-83-1... Xerox PARC Smalltalk, original documentation can be taken from http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks.html http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks.html - Smalltalk-80, Bits of History, Words of Advice - Smalltalk-80: The Language and its Implementation - Smalltalk-80, The Interactive Programming Environment Squeak and Pharos linage, https://squeak.org/ https://squeak.org/ https://pharo.org/ https://pharo.org/ Xerox PARC Interlisp-D, with Medley https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1056743.1056745 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/1056743.1056745 https://interlisp.org/ https://interlisp.org/ House, written in Haskell https://programatica.cs.pdx.edu/House/ https://programatica.cs.pdx.edu/House/ MirageOS, written in OCaml, partially used by Docker (TCP/IP stack), and Xen Hypervisor https://mirage.io/ https://mirage.io/ https://mirage.io/blog/2022-04-06.vpnkit https://mirage.io/blog/2022-04-06.vpnkit https://xenproject.org/projects/mirage-os/ https://xenproject.org/projects/mirage-os/ AmigaOS, http://toastytech.com/guis/indexamiga.html http://toastytech.com/guis/indexamiga.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga https://www.amigaos.net/content/1/features https://www.amigaos.net/content/1/features https://aros.sourceforge.io/ https://aros.sourceforge.io/ Solo in Concurrent Pascal, The solo operating system: A concurrent pascal program https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:vb843ff4581/vb843ff4581.pdf https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:vb843ff4581/vb843ff45... Lillith in Modula-2 https://bitsavers.org/pdf/eth/lilith/ETH7646_Lilith_A_Workstation_Computer_For_Modula-2_1984.pdf https://bitsavers.org/pdf/eth/lilith/ETH7646_Lilith_A_Workst... https://www.modula2.org/modula2-history.php https://www.modula2.org/modula2-history.php Now go out and explore, UNIX is not the be all, end all of how an OS is supposed to be, neither is C the ultimate systems programming language.

wenyong3124 2y ago

[dead]

gjvc 2y ago

see also https://wiki.osdev.org/Expanded_Main_Page https://wiki.osdev.org/Expanded_Main_Page

DrNosferatu 2y ago

I see many OSes here that are missing some lengthy, but apparently not extremely complicated - and quite well defined - parts / components / modules. I wonder if letting loose a coding LLM on them with clear goals and a feedback loop, could bring them to (at least near) completion?

BearOso 2y ago
Probably not helpfully. There isn't much like this to be found in any training data. The required code would be too novel, and I predict an LLM would hallucinate a good 2/3.
- DrNosferatu 2y ago
  My point is to ask the LLM to implement the well-defined design documents. And tests for verification.
- DrNosferatu 2y ago
  Wine improvement could be aided with LLMs by monitoring the output of a windows VM running and see what exactly to display, and what exactly to have in working (not program) RAM. Same goes for perfect OpenSource Office with MSOffice compatibility: MSOffice is running on Windows is continuously monitored for reference, showing exactly what needs to be outputted. Have this in a feedback and reinforcement loop.

toast0 2y ago

I've got a hobby OS that's currently x86 32-bit only. amd64 and arm64 are on my roadmap, but if all goes well, it's going to be the same experience on all three platforms, so arm64 won't be anymore exciting than x86 32-bit. Other than, you could run it on a raspberry pi or maybe an arm apple. I imagine most hobby OSes are looking at arm support vs adding something else, and arm support is going to be more fiddly and have less to show for it. I haven't found much time to work on mine lately, but other things are way more important like getting my virtio-net driver and the v86 virtio-net device to work together; having networking in https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=crazierl https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=crazierl would be really neat. Running on a pi would be neat too, but a browser demo is way more accessible.

johnklos 2y ago

TOPS on old PDP hardware (or an emulator) is quite interesting. If nothing else, it gives an appreciation for the age of many of the ideas that ended up in later OSes like CP/M and MS-DOS.