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Groklaw dissects Apple's trial brief on trade dress claims

59 points by grellas 14y ago

casca 14y ago
For anyone who loves to get an insight into the intellectual intricacies how another industry (in this case, law) works, this is a fantastic read.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
I enjoy reading Groklaw's coverage. It gets a bit over the top at times but I see that as passion more than prejudice. I find the stuff where pj and Florian go after each other a bit soap opera like and tend to skip over much of that stuff.
- neurotech1 14y ago
  From what I recall, groklaw.net (by Pamela Jones) is based on donations, and PJ works as a paralegal. Florian Mueller is a paid consultant on patent issues, and uses FossPatents.com to get consulting/expert witness clients and this sometimes shows through in his blog. He also consults for Oracle and Microsoft.
  - taligent 14y ago
    True. But we don't know the source of those donations. And seriously PJ's bias shows through on her blog pretty loud and clear.
losethos 14y ago
The purpose of life is to know God, love God and obey God. Enjoying His company is the purpose of life. Spirituality is basically delusion. God says... committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
DigitalJack 14y ago
I find this stuff fascinating. But, are the jurors not as clueless about why a given line of questioning as we were? They don't get to see this doc, do they?
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  I would bet most of that comes up in opening and closing arguments.
olalonde 14y ago
In case anyone else wonders what "trade dress" means: Trade dress is a legal term of art that generally refers to characteristics of the visual appearance of a product or its packaging (or even the design of a building) that signify the source of the product to consumers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress
0xABADC0DA 14y ago
Groklaw would be awesome as a summary that average people can read and understand... if it wasn't for the spin. Thing like excusing being late to file "Do you know how late Samsung was in the three instances I found? Two days late on two occasions, and one month late on another". Meanwhile if you are late by even one day paying a fee for a vehicle offense your license is suspended (at least in my state). Or try being just 1 hour late for jury duty and see how forgiving the judge is. Nobody else can get away with missing a court date. There must be something not quite right about the case because the judge is following the rules. What?!
Terretta 14y ago
PJ: "It does seem to be a deliberate Apple strategy, to just knock out as much of Samsung's ability to tell its story as it can, and in fact, that's what lawyers are supposed to do, if it's all true and fair. But forgive me if at least one eyewitness, me, concludes that this indicates that Apple is pretty sure it can't win _unless_ it excludes a great deal of Samsung's evidence, both for its defense and for supporting its counterclaims. If I am right about that, it means it feels it can't win fair and square." This paralegal's idea of billion dollar boxing matches is that you should keep your hands down and offer your opponent your chin, just to give them a sporting chance? That if you keep your hands up, it must mean you feel you can't win? What happened to "float like a butterfly"? Pardon me, miss, your bias is showing.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  I am not sure how you are reading that statement, but it seems to me that she is very clearly recognizing that what they are doing is the correct decision, from a practice of the law standpoint. She is not saying that they should do otherwise. schraeds: You have been hellbanned for 126 days. Nobody can see your posts unless they opt-in to seeing 'dead' posts. Regardless, you would have to ask her to clarify her reasoning. The way I see it though is that she is speculating on why that happens to be the correct thing to do in this case.
  - schraeds 14y ago
    And how doing practicing the correct decision in anyway indicate Apple couldn't otherwise win the case??
Steko 14y ago
"If you are Samsung, looking at this list {Samsung motions denied more then Apple's}, what are you thinking? I'm thinking it too." Right it's a conspiracy PJ! The judges are in on it! Maybe we can tie it into the Korean fencer who got robbed in London? idk It couldn't possibly be that Samsung has a weak case because, well let's acknowledge the 500 pound gorilla in the room -- nobody really doubts for a second that Samsung intentionally copied the iphone and ipad closer than every other non-KIRF competitor. It's a neat trick to simultaneously claim that our IP laws are hopelessly oppressive (to which I mostly agree) and that no one involved in open source ever violates them. Bravo!

59 points by grellas 14y ago

casca 14y ago

For anyone who loves to get an insight into the intellectual intricacies how another industry (in this case, law) works, this is a fantastic read.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

I enjoy reading Groklaw's coverage. It gets a bit over the top at times but I see that as passion more than prejudice. I find the stuff where pj and Florian go after each other a bit soap opera like and tend to skip over much of that stuff.

neurotech1 14y ago
From what I recall, groklaw.net (by Pamela Jones) is based on donations, and PJ works as a paralegal. Florian Mueller is a paid consultant on patent issues, and uses FossPatents.com to get consulting/expert witness clients and this sometimes shows through in his blog. He also consults for Oracle and Microsoft.
- taligent 14y ago
  True. But we don't know the source of those donations. And seriously PJ's bias shows through on her blog pretty loud and clear.

losethos 14y ago

The purpose of life is to know God, love God and obey God. Enjoying His company is the purpose of life. Spirituality is basically delusion. God says... committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

DigitalJack 14y ago

I find this stuff fascinating. But, are the jurors not as clueless about why a given line of questioning as we were? They don't get to see this doc, do they?

SoftwareMaven 14y ago
I would bet most of that comes up in opening and closing arguments.

olalonde 14y ago

In case anyone else wonders what "trade dress" means: Trade dress is a legal term of art that generally refers to characteristics of the visual appearance of a product or its packaging (or even the design of a building) that signify the source of the product to consumers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_dress

0xABADC0DA 14y ago

Groklaw would be awesome as a summary that average people can read and understand... if it wasn't for the spin. Thing like excusing being late to file "Do you know how late Samsung was in the three instances I found? Two days late on two occasions, and one month late on another". Meanwhile if you are late by even one day paying a fee for a vehicle offense your license is suspended (at least in my state). Or try being just 1 hour late for jury duty and see how forgiving the judge is. Nobody else can get away with missing a court date. There must be something not quite right about the case because the judge is following the rules. What?!

Terretta 14y ago

PJ: "It does seem to be a deliberate Apple strategy, to just knock out as much of Samsung's ability to tell its story as it can, and in fact, that's what lawyers are supposed to do, if it's all true and fair. But forgive me if at least one eyewitness, me, concludes that this indicates that Apple is pretty sure it can't win _unless_ it excludes a great deal of Samsung's evidence, both for its defense and for supporting its counterclaims. If I am right about that, it means it feels it can't win fair and square." This paralegal's idea of billion dollar boxing matches is that you should keep your hands down and offer your opponent your chin, just to give them a sporting chance? That if you keep your hands up, it must mean you feel you can't win? What happened to "float like a butterfly"? Pardon me, miss, your bias is showing.

jlgreco 14y ago
I am not sure how you are reading that statement, but it seems to me that she is very clearly recognizing that what they are doing is the correct decision, from a practice of the law standpoint. She is not saying that they should do otherwise. schraeds: You have been hellbanned for 126 days. Nobody can see your posts unless they opt-in to seeing 'dead' posts. Regardless, you would have to ask her to clarify her reasoning. The way I see it though is that she is speculating on why that happens to be the correct thing to do in this case.
- schraeds 14y ago
  And how doing practicing the correct decision in anyway indicate Apple couldn't otherwise win the case??

Steko 14y ago

"If you are Samsung, looking at this list {Samsung motions denied more then Apple's}, what are you thinking? I'm thinking it too." Right it's a conspiracy PJ! The judges are in on it! Maybe we can tie it into the Korean fencer who got robbed in London? idk It couldn't possibly be that Samsung has a weak case because, well let's acknowledge the 500 pound gorilla in the room -- nobody really doubts for a second that Samsung intentionally copied the iphone and ipad closer than every other non-KIRF competitor. It's a neat trick to simultaneously claim that our IP laws are hopelessly oppressive (to which I mostly agree) and that no one involved in open source ever violates them. Bravo!