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I strongly associate mindfulness with marketing and corporate bullshit. Surely we can find a better term. Anyway it's a bit of a misnomer if the whole point is

I strongly associate mindfulness with marketing and corporate bullshit. Surely we can find a better term. Anyway it's a bit of a misnomer if the whole point is to not think.

vmurthy 2y ago
From my understanding, mindfulness does not imply no thinking. It is more like not reacting to the thoughts that arise. I am a beginner so don't quote me here, though!
- agumonkey 2y ago
  yeah i try to understand it as not creating emotional cycles tied to an idea in your mind, cycles that can spin and leave you ruminating at best, fully depressed in worse cases
- nukem222 2y ago
  > It is more like not reacting to the thoughts that arise. Surely this is as close an approximation to not thinking as conscious humans are capable of. Anyway, words get useless pretty quickly describing internal phenomenon. I just think "mindfulness" is itself simply so vague and so widely applied it could apply to basically any kind of mental therapy. What I want is less mindfulness, please, I want an empty head.
- AStonesThrow 2y ago
  I understand it through a Christian lens and the traditions of Contemplation, Hesychasm, Centering Prayer. The latter two are enormously controversial, and it's sort of amusing that Carmelites and many other orders don't seem to make the same waves, as long as it's called Contemplative, I guess. But honestly, it's really fantastic and takes significant discipline to bear fruit. I've simply tried it on the surface and experienced results, but to truly practice it is to choose a guru, and devote oneself singularly to it. The mentally ill are generally too haphazard to follow such a path. I did find a YouTube channel that provides guided meditations called "The Mindful Christian" and again, recasts Mindfulness with a Christian ethos, and I enjoy the attentive guidance where otherwise my mind would wander in abject silence. But an experienced Mindfulness practitioner would tolerate that wandering, redirect focus, and continue on. The focus is generally assisted through use of mantra or specific repetetive phrase, but experience permits us to release even the words and transcend their meaning and sensations. It's a matter of releasing our ego and self-concern and permit a larger perspective to take over, however you'll conceive that. It may begin with an emptying of the mind, but seeks a grounded-ness, a better awareness of reality, allowing the immanent power to envelop us, and practcing our ability to remain rooted despite all the world's attempts to wrest us into fantasy, paranoia, psychosis, lies. Hesychasm describes a specific discipline of the Eastern Orthodox/Byzantine tradition where monastics will incorporate the physicality of breathing and body posture, reciting mantras, if you will, with the spirituality of contemplation and emptiness from distractions or concrete bodily concerns. I believe that the controversy arises somewhat for a real need for discipline and guidance, so that the emptiness is not filled with something worse or demonic. So that one doesn't lose oneself to the numinous and indeed forget reality entirely. Some practitioners report missing appointments or forgetting their surroundings while immersed in contemplation. Beware.
_7acn 2y ago
Where the Christian spirit fades, superstition grows.
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  A different superstition, you mean.
  - _7acn 2y ago
    I mean exactly what I say. I'm simply pointing out an interesting observation: Western countries abandoning their roots do not transition into pure "atheism"; instead, they exchange their spirituality for something else. Rather than Christianity, what's popular now are horoscopes, tarot cards, meditation, and various practices derived from Buddhism, among other things.
    - sethammons 2y ago
      You are holding Christianity in higher regard. It is as equally (in)valid as horoscopes and Buddhism. Humans are pattern matchers and will identify patterns where there are none. Faces in clouds, mountain outcrops, etc. this lends itself to superstition. Nothing is special about Christianity aside from being regionally popular.
    - stanac 2y ago
      Western countries abandoned their roots when they accepted abrahamic religions.
    - Apocryphon 2y ago
      Mindfulness, like meditation itself, is not exclusive to dharmic religions and does exist in the Christian tradition. https://ianvanheusen.com/mindfulness-in-st-ignatius-of-loyola/ https://ianvanheusen.com/mindfulness-in-st-ignatius-of-loyol...
    - nukem222 2y ago
      You'd think if we were returning to western roots there would be a lot more slavery and reading of bird livers on live tv. And just an astounding amount of male-on-male competitive anal sex (which, tbf, you can definitely still find if you look in the right place).
AStonesThrow 2y ago
Mindfulness has absolutely swept away anything else in the mental health field. I’m still not sure what it is after 20 years, but everybody is a fervent disciple around here. It hardly even surprised me, when I rewatched The Phantom Menace, that Obi-Wan was overtly training Anakin for Mindfulness. Come on nerds, embrace the post-Christian Hesychasm!
AndrewDucker 2y ago
The whole point is to be aware (or mindful) of the emotional reactions that you are having so that you can process them in a way that works better for you. Clear your mind, see what floats to the top, carefully examine it (without getting caught up in it), let it go, see what comes up next.
- nukem222 2y ago
  Sure, but you can also describe monkey brain as being mindful of the wrong thing. There are surely more apt words out there. Midnfullness... of what? Or we could just say "breathwork" and probably get 95% of the utility without sounding like you're pitching a team yoga class at work.
  - thirdacc 2y ago
    > Sure, but you can also describe monkey brain as being mindful of the wrong thing The monkey brain is doing things on "autopilot", without noticing how your mind operates. It's the opposite of mindfulness.
benterix 2y ago
I hate this trend wholeheartedly. They even introduce it to schools. I know they have good intentions but this is not how things work. The processes related to one's mind and personal development need to be voluntary and genuine, not sponsored by HR. Instead, what happened is that some people took an important aspects of Asian religions and presented it as a panaceum for stress and other contemporary problems. It is not a universal cure, though. If you have problems, you become more aware of these problems. What do you do, then? In a traditional setting, you had a teacher who was personally responsible for guiding you on the path. Will your HR lady do that? It all makes very little sense to me when implemented in this way.
- mercer 2y ago
  I am a fan of mindfulness, but grounded in (a) faith or religious/spiritual framework. When it comes to 'corporate-style mindfulness', I like to think of the mindfulness as brushing a set of fake work-teeth that you may or may not care about.

I strongly associate mindfulness with marketing and corporate bullshit. Surely we can find a better term. Anyway it's a bit of a misnomer if the whole point is to not think.

vmurthy 2y ago

From my understanding, mindfulness does not imply no thinking. It is more like not reacting to the thoughts that arise. I am a beginner so don't quote me here, though!

agumonkey 2y ago
yeah i try to understand it as not creating emotional cycles tied to an idea in your mind, cycles that can spin and leave you ruminating at best, fully depressed in worse cases
nukem222 2y ago
> It is more like not reacting to the thoughts that arise. Surely this is as close an approximation to not thinking as conscious humans are capable of. Anyway, words get useless pretty quickly describing internal phenomenon. I just think "mindfulness" is itself simply so vague and so widely applied it could apply to basically any kind of mental therapy. What I want is less mindfulness, please, I want an empty head.
AStonesThrow 2y ago
I understand it through a Christian lens and the traditions of Contemplation, Hesychasm, Centering Prayer. The latter two are enormously controversial, and it's sort of amusing that Carmelites and many other orders don't seem to make the same waves, as long as it's called Contemplative, I guess. But honestly, it's really fantastic and takes significant discipline to bear fruit. I've simply tried it on the surface and experienced results, but to truly practice it is to choose a guru, and devote oneself singularly to it. The mentally ill are generally too haphazard to follow such a path. I did find a YouTube channel that provides guided meditations called "The Mindful Christian" and again, recasts Mindfulness with a Christian ethos, and I enjoy the attentive guidance where otherwise my mind would wander in abject silence. But an experienced Mindfulness practitioner would tolerate that wandering, redirect focus, and continue on. The focus is generally assisted through use of mantra or specific repetetive phrase, but experience permits us to release even the words and transcend their meaning and sensations. It's a matter of releasing our ego and self-concern and permit a larger perspective to take over, however you'll conceive that. It may begin with an emptying of the mind, but seeks a grounded-ness, a better awareness of reality, allowing the immanent power to envelop us, and practcing our ability to remain rooted despite all the world's attempts to wrest us into fantasy, paranoia, psychosis, lies. Hesychasm describes a specific discipline of the Eastern Orthodox/Byzantine tradition where monastics will incorporate the physicality of breathing and body posture, reciting mantras, if you will, with the spirituality of contemplation and emptiness from distractions or concrete bodily concerns. I believe that the controversy arises somewhat for a real need for discipline and guidance, so that the emptiness is not filled with something worse or demonic. So that one doesn't lose oneself to the numinous and indeed forget reality entirely. Some practitioners report missing appointments or forgetting their surroundings while immersed in contemplation. Beware.

_7acn 2y ago

Where the Christian spirit fades, superstition grows.

amanaplanacanal 2y ago
A different superstition, you mean.
- _7acn 2y ago
  I mean exactly what I say. I'm simply pointing out an interesting observation: Western countries abandoning their roots do not transition into pure "atheism"; instead, they exchange their spirituality for something else. Rather than Christianity, what's popular now are horoscopes, tarot cards, meditation, and various practices derived from Buddhism, among other things.
  - sethammons 2y ago
    You are holding Christianity in higher regard. It is as equally (in)valid as horoscopes and Buddhism. Humans are pattern matchers and will identify patterns where there are none. Faces in clouds, mountain outcrops, etc. this lends itself to superstition. Nothing is special about Christianity aside from being regionally popular.
  - stanac 2y ago
    Western countries abandoned their roots when they accepted abrahamic religions.
  - Apocryphon 2y ago
    Mindfulness, like meditation itself, is not exclusive to dharmic religions and does exist in the Christian tradition. https://ianvanheusen.com/mindfulness-in-st-ignatius-of-loyola/ https://ianvanheusen.com/mindfulness-in-st-ignatius-of-loyol...
  - nukem222 2y ago
    You'd think if we were returning to western roots there would be a lot more slavery and reading of bird livers on live tv. And just an astounding amount of male-on-male competitive anal sex (which, tbf, you can definitely still find if you look in the right place).

AStonesThrow 2y ago

Mindfulness has absolutely swept away anything else in the mental health field. I’m still not sure what it is after 20 years, but everybody is a fervent disciple around here. It hardly even surprised me, when I rewatched The Phantom Menace, that Obi-Wan was overtly training Anakin for Mindfulness. Come on nerds, embrace the post-Christian Hesychasm!

AndrewDucker 2y ago

The whole point is to be aware (or mindful) of the emotional reactions that you are having so that you can process them in a way that works better for you. Clear your mind, see what floats to the top, carefully examine it (without getting caught up in it), let it go, see what comes up next.

nukem222 2y ago
Sure, but you can also describe monkey brain as being mindful of the wrong thing. There are surely more apt words out there. Midnfullness... of what? Or we could just say "breathwork" and probably get 95% of the utility without sounding like you're pitching a team yoga class at work.
- thirdacc 2y ago
  > Sure, but you can also describe monkey brain as being mindful of the wrong thing The monkey brain is doing things on "autopilot", without noticing how your mind operates. It's the opposite of mindfulness.

benterix 2y ago

I hate this trend wholeheartedly. They even introduce it to schools. I know they have good intentions but this is not how things work. The processes related to one's mind and personal development need to be voluntary and genuine, not sponsored by HR. Instead, what happened is that some people took an important aspects of Asian religions and presented it as a panaceum for stress and other contemporary problems. It is not a universal cure, though. If you have problems, you become more aware of these problems. What do you do, then? In a traditional setting, you had a teacher who was personally responsible for guiding you on the path. Will your HR lady do that? It all makes very little sense to me when implemented in this way.

mercer 2y ago
I am a fan of mindfulness, but grounded in (a) faith or religious/spiritual framework. When it comes to 'corporate-style mindfulness', I like to think of the mindfulness as brushing a set of fake work-teeth that you may or may not care about.