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One of the best things to come out of destroying environmentalism is that we can finally get working on renewable energy instead of being blocked by suicidal en
by renewiltord 2y ago
One of the best things to come out of destroying environmentalism is that we can finally get working on renewable energy instead of being blocked by suicidal environmentalists who find wind farms too ugly.
- acdha 2y agoEnvironmentalists have been pushing wind, solar, etc. for the last half century. There are a few shortsighted people who oppose wind farms but they represent a large, complex multinational movement in the same way that any one of us represents the tech industry, which is to say not at all. In many cases, if you look at the complainants it’s also reasonable to question whether they’re fully honest about their motivations. For example, the big Martha’s Vineyard project was backed by the biggest environmental group in the area but by the opposition were people like commercial fishermen and various rich cranks like RFK Jr. and the Kochs who thought the change in view would affect their property values but do not otherwise live lives full of obvious strong environmentalist views.
- renewiltord 2y agoEnvironmentalists push renewables the way homelessness activists push housing: It’s a great idea if it is near no one, hurts no one’s views, impacts zero birds, affects zero animals, and is not built for profit by the rich. I suppose I could use their terminology, though: responsibly sited, balancing conservation priorities, and protecting local communities. I recall, in my college years, being told how Real Communism hadn’t been tried yet. It seems that Real Communism never did get tried and no matter who tries Communism they never try the good Real variety. After years of watching top environmental organizations repeatedly oppose nuclear power as a whole and renewables often, I think I have to say: Real Environmentalism Hasn’t Been Tried Yet. No True Environmentalist Would Do What These Guys Do.
- tfourb 2y agoI am an „environmentalist“ and I’m in full and public Sport of the hundreds of windmills in clear view of my town and the solar on every new residential development, including my own house. As are all other „environmentalists“ I know.
- renewiltord 2y agoI’m comfortable restricting my position to the US. Things may be different elsewhere, even in Canada.
- acdha 2y agoIf you’re going to make that kind of sweeping claim representing many different people and groups, I’m going to need to see some data. What you’re describing sounds more like the mechanism I described, where rich people use the language of environmentalism to make their NIMBY activities sound less venal but that’s saying that those specific people are hypocrites rather than a general commentary on the entire field.
- renewiltord 2y agoWhat evidence would convince you? If I know the bar, I can see if it can be met.
- acdha 2y agoAnything specific? You started with this claim that environmentalists are blocking wind farms for aesthetic reasons, where are some example projects and who’s blocking them? I gave one (Martha’s vineyard) but in that case the major environmental groups backed it while the opposition was either not in the field (e.g. commercial fishermen) or rich people using environmental language but pretty transparently arguing based on real estate values or politics, so my first question would be how large the overall environmental movement is and how representative these people are within it. If, say, you have Greenpeace pro and RFK Jr. and the Kochs con, it’s hard to say that environmentalists as a whole oppose it.
- codr7 2y agoHave you ever lived near wind turbines? They take quite a toll on both wild life and people living in the area. And are often abandoned as soon as they don't generate enough profits/are too expensive to maintain, with no one wanting to pay for cleaning up the area.
- throwaway2037 2y ago> They take quite a toll on ... people living in the area. How?
- casper14 2y agoHonestly, it's the sound. If you live close enough, it will drive you insane.
- jmb99 2y agoA buddy of mine has two on his property, one within a stones’ throw of his house and barns. Not only does the sound not drive him insane, I couldn’t hear it (at all), nor any of the other ~600 in the area.
- codr7 2y agoIt depends a lot on geography and (obviously) winds in the area. I can assure you that it's very real, and very harmful on a daily basis.
- bee_rider 2y agoHow close were you? I’ve been on a campus with a wind turbine, don’t recall any sound. But I didn’t get directly under the thing.
- wingworks 2y agoI used to live down the hill from 1, and 99% of the time could hear nothing. But on a lucky day when the wind was in the right direction and right strength, you could just hear a faint woosh woosh woosh. Personally I liked the sound. But we only had 1, so maybe different with many more. Though never heard the wind farms I've stopped by.
- rob74 2y agoI think you're confusing environmentalists with NIMBYs who use (among others) environmental arguments to argue against projects they don't like.
- renewiltord 2y agoScratch an environmentalist and a NIMBY bleeds. I think we’ve seen the effect in America in general and California in particular. The Sierra Club is against infill housing to protect views.