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I find it extra surprising that people are advocating for transitioning to using AI while their proof of concept looks like this: do { resp = callAI(input); }

I find it extra surprising that people are advocating for transitioning to using AI while their proof of concept looks like this: do { resp = callAI(input); } while (!isOutputSane(resp) && attempts++ < MAX_RETRY)

jajko 2y ago
Nobody sane and smart I know is advocating for AI now. All keep saying 'one day', 'soon' etc. Our megacorp very effectively blocked all of this and we don't have anything internal yet, but we are in specific market. And basically all I saw so far was a snake oil from people trying to push it or benefit from it, even here. Trust me bro... well no, show me some hard facts and we can start building trust. Sure assistants are nice but thats about it. Its just too flawed now to be dependable and reliable, it feels like typical 80/20 or 90/10 situation where inexperienced juniors are all over their head how future is now, and seniors just meh and go and do some work.
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  > All keep saying 'one day', 'soon' etc. The parallels with crypto are amazing. > And basically all I saw so far was a snake oil from people trying to push it or benefit from it, even here. Trust me bro... Cue some dude chiming in on how they are 1000% more productive now and wrote 100 apps in a weekend with Claude, etc. It is very tiresome indeed.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Except this time is quite real for some jobs, maybe programming will take a few more years, but for artistic fields, it is already here. Indie devs now using AI generated assets instead of hiring artists is quite common.
    - surgical_fire 2y ago
      > Except this time is quite real Oh it was very real during crypto hype cycle too. The crypto people were very annoying with it. > Indie devs now using AI generated assets instead of hiring artists is quite common. I would imagine it is fine for some concept art, based on my experimentation with multiple models for Stable Diffusion. For generating actual assets that are consistent? I am highly skeptical. Unless we are talking about bottom of the barrel indie games.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        Consistent enough for it to be an issue. And not only indies, when taking voice actors into consideration. https://www.ign.com/articles/horizon-actor-ashly-burch-says-sonys-ai-aloy-video-left-her-feeling-worried-about-game-performance-as-an-art-form https://www.ign.com/articles/horizon-actor-ashly-burch-says-... Or some well known studios, https://www.ign.com/articles/activision-finally-admits-it-uses-generative-ai-for-some-call-of-duty-black-ops-6-assets-after-backlash-following-ai-slop-zombie-santa-loading-screen https://www.ign.com/articles/activision-finally-admits-it-us...
        surgical_fire 2y ago
        Ah, it is bottom of the barrell AAA stuff instead. I am somehow unimpressed.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Besides the millions COD gets, more than a few wannabe startup owners on Y Combinator will ever achieve. There are people being affected by those decisions, effectively losing their jobs, and source of income, as unimpressed as you may be.
        surgical_fire 2y ago
        Yeah, COD sells a lot. Not that the sales it gets is testament of quality. FIFA (or whatever it is called nowadays) also sells plenty every year generating incredible revenue to EA, and every year is a poor quality game. This is why I am unimpressed that Activision is using AI in its games. I expect them to be of poor quality.
- jgilias 2y ago
  Advocate or not, it’s here to stay. And if you’re not adjusting to it, you’re doing yourself a disservice. Last week I did the amount of work that would’ve taken me give or take a month. A significant part of it was writing an API client for a system I needed to use. Pretty run of the mill stuff. Doing this ‘by hand’ just takes time. Go look at the docs, type out your data structures, wire things up for the new call, write tests. With “the robot” once the framework was largely in place, you just paste API docs for the endpoint you need, and it’s done in a minute. With tests and everything. Now, you could argue that this is not “senior level work”. Sure, maybe. But the thing is, you need to use it to learn how to use it effectively, and more importantly to get the intuition about what it can help with best. So this is my thesis now - if you’re a senior who neglects this new tool, you’re going to be out of a job soon-ish.
  - Scarblac 2y ago
    But a solution that takes an OpenAPI spec and generates all of those things from templates would be much more reliably correct than letting an AI do it, and has already existed for years. I think AI is a game changer but not for things that can already be automated rigirously without AI.
    - jgilias 2y ago
      There was no OpenAPI spec. And it wasn’t all it made faster to do.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Eventually only the arquitect will be required, no need for seniors, the offshoring team is the cloud instead of some folks on the other side of the planet. This is the future to prepare, not AI generating a couple of files.
    - jgilias 2y ago
      Maybe. But that future is definitely not yet here. Generating a couple of files though is here. And that compounds. So people who’re still typing those files by hand… yeah.
- wolfcola 2y ago
  but layoffs are happening _now_, purely based on what people who stand to benefit directly claim AI will do.
Scarblac 2y ago
It's actually `letSlightlyDifferentAIJudgeOutputSanity()` rather than `isOutputSane()`, I think.

jajko 2y ago

Nobody sane and smart I know is advocating for AI now. All keep saying 'one day', 'soon' etc. Our megacorp very effectively blocked all of this and we don't have anything internal yet, but we are in specific market. And basically all I saw so far was a snake oil from people trying to push it or benefit from it, even here. Trust me bro... well no, show me some hard facts and we can start building trust. Sure assistants are nice but thats about it. Its just too flawed now to be dependable and reliable, it feels like typical 80/20 or 90/10 situation where inexperienced juniors are all over their head how future is now, and seniors just meh and go and do some work.

surgical_fire 2y ago
> All keep saying 'one day', 'soon' etc. The parallels with crypto are amazing. > And basically all I saw so far was a snake oil from people trying to push it or benefit from it, even here. Trust me bro... Cue some dude chiming in on how they are 1000% more productive now and wrote 100 apps in a weekend with Claude, etc. It is very tiresome indeed.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Except this time is quite real for some jobs, maybe programming will take a few more years, but for artistic fields, it is already here. Indie devs now using AI generated assets instead of hiring artists is quite common.
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    > Except this time is quite real Oh it was very real during crypto hype cycle too. The crypto people were very annoying with it. > Indie devs now using AI generated assets instead of hiring artists is quite common. I would imagine it is fine for some concept art, based on my experimentation with multiple models for Stable Diffusion. For generating actual assets that are consistent? I am highly skeptical. Unless we are talking about bottom of the barrel indie games.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      Consistent enough for it to be an issue. And not only indies, when taking voice actors into consideration. https://www.ign.com/articles/horizon-actor-ashly-burch-says-sonys-ai-aloy-video-left-her-feeling-worried-about-game-performance-as-an-art-form https://www.ign.com/articles/horizon-actor-ashly-burch-says-... Or some well known studios, https://www.ign.com/articles/activision-finally-admits-it-uses-generative-ai-for-some-call-of-duty-black-ops-6-assets-after-backlash-following-ai-slop-zombie-santa-loading-screen https://www.ign.com/articles/activision-finally-admits-it-us...
      - surgical_fire 2y ago
        Ah, it is bottom of the barrell AAA stuff instead. I am somehow unimpressed.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Besides the millions COD gets, more than a few wannabe startup owners on Y Combinator will ever achieve. There are people being affected by those decisions, effectively losing their jobs, and source of income, as unimpressed as you may be.
        surgical_fire 2y ago
        Yeah, COD sells a lot. Not that the sales it gets is testament of quality. FIFA (or whatever it is called nowadays) also sells plenty every year generating incredible revenue to EA, and every year is a poor quality game. This is why I am unimpressed that Activision is using AI in its games. I expect them to be of poor quality.
jgilias 2y ago
Advocate or not, it’s here to stay. And if you’re not adjusting to it, you’re doing yourself a disservice. Last week I did the amount of work that would’ve taken me give or take a month. A significant part of it was writing an API client for a system I needed to use. Pretty run of the mill stuff. Doing this ‘by hand’ just takes time. Go look at the docs, type out your data structures, wire things up for the new call, write tests. With “the robot” once the framework was largely in place, you just paste API docs for the endpoint you need, and it’s done in a minute. With tests and everything. Now, you could argue that this is not “senior level work”. Sure, maybe. But the thing is, you need to use it to learn how to use it effectively, and more importantly to get the intuition about what it can help with best. So this is my thesis now - if you’re a senior who neglects this new tool, you’re going to be out of a job soon-ish.
- Scarblac 2y ago
  But a solution that takes an OpenAPI spec and generates all of those things from templates would be much more reliably correct than letting an AI do it, and has already existed for years. I think AI is a game changer but not for things that can already be automated rigirously without AI.
  - jgilias 2y ago
    There was no OpenAPI spec. And it wasn’t all it made faster to do.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Eventually only the arquitect will be required, no need for seniors, the offshoring team is the cloud instead of some folks on the other side of the planet. This is the future to prepare, not AI generating a couple of files.
  - jgilias 2y ago
    Maybe. But that future is definitely not yet here. Generating a couple of files though is here. And that compounds. So people who’re still typing those files by hand… yeah.
wolfcola 2y ago
but layoffs are happening _now_, purely based on what people who stand to benefit directly claim AI will do.

Scarblac 2y ago

It's actually `letSlightlyDifferentAIJudgeOutputSanity()` rather than `isOutputSane()`, I think.