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I'd love to see a source for your claims. I know they are at least untrue or misleading for the Netherlands. The Netherlands offers the right to remain silent.

I'd love to see a source for your claims. I know they are at least untrue or misleading for the Netherlands. The Netherlands offers the right to remain silent. All European counties I am familiar offer something similar. On the European level, this right has recently been affirmed. [1] In the Netherlands, improperly obtained evidence is indeed not excluded in the Netherlands. Improperly obtaining evidence is a separate crime that does not taint the case for the initial crime, and is prosecuted separately. However, improperly handled evidence (e.g. broken chain of custody) is normally excluded. In practice, improperly obtained evidence is not a major problem, it will in itself not help convict an innocent person. Improperly handled evidence however, can easily lead to an innocent person being convicted. [1] https://www.whitecase.com/insight-alert/european-court-justice-affirms-right-silence https://www.whitecase.com/insight-alert/european-court-justi...

tptacek 2y ago
You can verify my claims in 2 minutes on Google. I don't have the Netherlands on my list; I haven't looked. It is not my claim that every European country lacks every procedural protection in the US system, or for that matter that the US has every procedural protection from every European state.
- jccc 2y ago
  > You can verify my claims in 2 minutes on Google. I'm sure you're right, but presumably this means it would take you significantly less than two minutes to offer some concrete sources that would help enlighten kvdveer and anyone else who might be interested.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    It's a fun conversation! I've got a little list of US criminal justice protections and where they do and don't apply in Europe. For example: the UK doesn't have strict double jeopardy protections. They used to! They recently decided they didn't like them, and rolled them back. It would be a fun thread, and I think a little eye-opening. But nobody is reading this thread at this point so it's not worth sinking a lot of effort in here.
    - jccc 2y ago
      Well you, kvdveer, I and likely at least a few other people are reading it, and I hope we're not beneath significantly less than two minutes of effort.
      - tptacek 2y ago
        Let's just wait for it to come up again organically. I think we're all on the same page now with respect to this thread.

tptacek 2y ago

You can verify my claims in 2 minutes on Google. I don't have the Netherlands on my list; I haven't looked. It is not my claim that every European country lacks every procedural protection in the US system, or for that matter that the US has every procedural protection from every European state.

jccc 2y ago
> You can verify my claims in 2 minutes on Google. I'm sure you're right, but presumably this means it would take you significantly less than two minutes to offer some concrete sources that would help enlighten kvdveer and anyone else who might be interested.
- tptacek 2y ago
  It's a fun conversation! I've got a little list of US criminal justice protections and where they do and don't apply in Europe. For example: the UK doesn't have strict double jeopardy protections. They used to! They recently decided they didn't like them, and rolled them back. It would be a fun thread, and I think a little eye-opening. But nobody is reading this thread at this point so it's not worth sinking a lot of effort in here.
  - jccc 2y ago
    Well you, kvdveer, I and likely at least a few other people are reading it, and I hope we're not beneath significantly less than two minutes of effort.
    - tptacek 2y ago
      Let's just wait for it to come up again organically. I think we're all on the same page now with respect to this thread.