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> via her phones microphone Source? Because so far this claim has been debunked every time. I assume you are aware how Android and iOS have a visual indicator

> via her phones microphone Source? Because so far this claim has been debunked every time. I assume you are aware how Android and iOS have a visual indicator to show that the microphone is active? Have you analyzed any network traffic that included unexpected voice samples? Please, explain yourself.

josephcsible 2y ago
Those indicators aren't trustworthy. If your phone is configured to respond to "Hey Google", it will do so even when you say it while that indicator isn't lit up.
- gruez 2y ago
  That doesn't explain how facebook (google's competitor) got ahold of that info, or how people with iPhones are being eavesdropped on.
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    > That doesn't explain how facebook (google's competitor) got ahold of that info, or how people with iPhones are being eavesdropped on. It can easily explain how people with iPhones are being eavesdropped on: "those indicators aren't trustworthy". According to this theory, the microphone in an iPhone is active despite the indicator not being displayed. That's identical to the Android theory. To extend the theory to Facebook, you'd need to assume one of these: (1) The unreliability of the indicator on Android is a matter of incompetence on the part of Google, and Facebook is exploiting it. (2) Google has a privileged stealth-microphone-access permission, and Facebook has negotiated for access to it.
    - jillyboel 2y ago
      Go reverse the operating system and you'll find this is just a paranoid fantasy. Many others have done so already, so you can also just hit up google and find their analyses.
      - thaumasiotes 2y ago
        That's not really relevant to the question here. We have this dialog: A: You know phone microphones aren't secretly taping us because indicators display when they're active. B: Those indicators aren't reliable. A: That can't explain how iPhone users would get taped. Where did that come from?
        jillyboel 2y ago
        The indicators are reliable, or do you have proof otherwise?
        thaumasiotes 2y ago
        You seem to have a strong desire to believe that the conversation upthread contains completely different comments than it actually contains.
        jillyboel 2y ago
        Everything discussed upthread is irrelevant because the indicators are reliable, or do you have proof otherwise?
        thaumasiotes 2y ago
        [flagged]
        jillyboel 2y ago
        [flagged]
- jillyboel 2y ago
  Separate microcontroller that can (barely) do one thing well. Any network traffic analysis that indicates they're using this for spying?
- LexGray 2y ago
  If the Tensor security chip works on the Google side the same as Apple there is dedicated hardware specific to detecting the trigger phrases. No sound is processed at a software level until that security chip requests further processing at which point it shows the fake LED. The LED itself is added to the graphics layer in a way that cannot be hidden or obscured. It is always a question of trust, but after more than a decade of phones they are pretty determined to earn trust. I have not seen any trustworthy reports of a secret always on microphone. Just the occasional recording made after a misheard trigger word or button which is an issue being further secured year by year. Amazon on the other hand…
viraptor 2y ago
Whether it was actually used or just promoted is still unknown as far as I can tell, but the capability was definitely advertised: https://www.sify.com/ai-analytics/active-listening-feature-on-phones-raises-privacy-concerns/ https://www.sify.com/ai-analytics/active-listening-feature-o...
- jillyboel 2y ago
  It's nonsense, only mentioned in some random deck with no technical details, the article says as much. So probably just a hopeful middle manager that let their fantasies get the better of them. Got an actual source?
  - threeducks 2y ago
    The accursed Cox Media Group has since released the following statement on their website: https://www.cmg.com/news/cmg-responds-reports-about-discontinued-active-listening-product/ISJO7MQD5VDFHAN6VQGP47FS2Y/ https://www.cmg.com/news/cmg-responds-reports-about-disconti... CMG Responds to Reports About Discontinued Active Listening Product As we stated before, CMG businesses have never listened to any conversations nor had access to anything beyond third-party aggregated, anonymized, and fully encrypted data sets that can be used for ad placement. The information referenced in recent stories is based on outdated materials for a product that CMG Local Solutions no longer sells (although the product never listened to customers, it has long been discontinued to avoid misperception). CMG Local Solutions markets a wide range of advertising tools. Like other advertising companies, some of those tools include third-party vendor products powered by data sets sourced from users by digital publishers and other applications and then packaged and resold to data servicers. Advertising data based on voice and other data is collected by these platforms and devices under the terms and conditions provided by those apps and accepted by their users. This data can then be sold to third-party companies and converted into anonymized information for advertisers. This anonymized data then is resold by numerous advertising companies. In particular, let me highlight this sentence: Advertising data based on voice and other data is collected by these platforms and devices under the terms and conditions provided by those apps and accepted by their users. To me, this sounds like "We did not spy ourselves, but we bought data from other people who did the spying for us, and that was legal because some user checked a checkbox somewhere".

josephcsible 2y ago

Those indicators aren't trustworthy. If your phone is configured to respond to "Hey Google", it will do so even when you say it while that indicator isn't lit up.

gruez 2y ago
That doesn't explain how facebook (google's competitor) got ahold of that info, or how people with iPhones are being eavesdropped on.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > That doesn't explain how facebook (google's competitor) got ahold of that info, or how people with iPhones are being eavesdropped on. It can easily explain how people with iPhones are being eavesdropped on: "those indicators aren't trustworthy". According to this theory, the microphone in an iPhone is active despite the indicator not being displayed. That's identical to the Android theory. To extend the theory to Facebook, you'd need to assume one of these: (1) The unreliability of the indicator on Android is a matter of incompetence on the part of Google, and Facebook is exploiting it. (2) Google has a privileged stealth-microphone-access permission, and Facebook has negotiated for access to it.
  - jillyboel 2y ago
    Go reverse the operating system and you'll find this is just a paranoid fantasy. Many others have done so already, so you can also just hit up google and find their analyses.
    - thaumasiotes 2y ago
      That's not really relevant to the question here. We have this dialog: A: You know phone microphones aren't secretly taping us because indicators display when they're active. B: Those indicators aren't reliable. A: That can't explain how iPhone users would get taped. Where did that come from?
      - jillyboel 2y ago
        The indicators are reliable, or do you have proof otherwise?
        thaumasiotes 2y ago
        You seem to have a strong desire to believe that the conversation upthread contains completely different comments than it actually contains.
        jillyboel 2y ago
        Everything discussed upthread is irrelevant because the indicators are reliable, or do you have proof otherwise?
        thaumasiotes 2y ago
        [flagged]
        jillyboel 2y ago
        [flagged]
jillyboel 2y ago
Separate microcontroller that can (barely) do one thing well. Any network traffic analysis that indicates they're using this for spying?
LexGray 2y ago
If the Tensor security chip works on the Google side the same as Apple there is dedicated hardware specific to detecting the trigger phrases. No sound is processed at a software level until that security chip requests further processing at which point it shows the fake LED. The LED itself is added to the graphics layer in a way that cannot be hidden or obscured. It is always a question of trust, but after more than a decade of phones they are pretty determined to earn trust. I have not seen any trustworthy reports of a secret always on microphone. Just the occasional recording made after a misheard trigger word or button which is an issue being further secured year by year. Amazon on the other hand…

viraptor 2y ago

Whether it was actually used or just promoted is still unknown as far as I can tell, but the capability was definitely advertised: https://www.sify.com/ai-analytics/active-listening-feature-on-phones-raises-privacy-concerns/ https://www.sify.com/ai-analytics/active-listening-feature-o...

jillyboel 2y ago
It's nonsense, only mentioned in some random deck with no technical details, the article says as much. So probably just a hopeful middle manager that let their fantasies get the better of them. Got an actual source?
- threeducks 2y ago
  The accursed Cox Media Group has since released the following statement on their website: https://www.cmg.com/news/cmg-responds-reports-about-discontinued-active-listening-product/ISJO7MQD5VDFHAN6VQGP47FS2Y/ https://www.cmg.com/news/cmg-responds-reports-about-disconti... CMG Responds to Reports About Discontinued Active Listening Product As we stated before, CMG businesses have never listened to any conversations nor had access to anything beyond third-party aggregated, anonymized, and fully encrypted data sets that can be used for ad placement. The information referenced in recent stories is based on outdated materials for a product that CMG Local Solutions no longer sells (although the product never listened to customers, it has long been discontinued to avoid misperception). CMG Local Solutions markets a wide range of advertising tools. Like other advertising companies, some of those tools include third-party vendor products powered by data sets sourced from users by digital publishers and other applications and then packaged and resold to data servicers. Advertising data based on voice and other data is collected by these platforms and devices under the terms and conditions provided by those apps and accepted by their users. This data can then be sold to third-party companies and converted into anonymized information for advertisers. This anonymized data then is resold by numerous advertising companies. In particular, let me highlight this sentence: Advertising data based on voice and other data is collected by these platforms and devices under the terms and conditions provided by those apps and accepted by their users. To me, this sounds like "We did not spy ourselves, but we bought data from other people who did the spying for us, and that was legal because some user checked a checkbox somewhere".