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"High-speed rail is going to break CA financially." When I hear this, I wonder what the west would be like if people had said the same of all the infrastructure

by redwood 14y ago

"High-speed rail is going to break CA financially." When I hear this, I wonder what the west would be like if people had said the same of all the infrastructure we rely on in the west today. The rail, the roads, the bridges, the dams. Everything. You say "very little of the world is NYC/London/Japan." Well you know what? The western US would have nearly no one living in it if it weren't for big infrastructure projects. It's naturally a very inhospitable place, too little water half the year, too spread out, etc. But we've turned it into a place millions can thrive in. High speed rail may not be as critical as water, but it's ridiculous to think we can't build a modern railroad today. If we can't build a modern railroad today then we're already broken. And if we're already broken, what do we have to lose?

rayiner 14y ago
This is absolutely right. Chicago exploded from a settlement of a few thousand people in 1840 to one of the five largest cities in the world, with over a million people, in 1890. This growth was contemporaneous with the expansion of the railroads out west and Chicago's status as the major U.S. rail hub. And it's also absolutely right that it's ridiculous for people out west to complain about the intractability of big infrastructure projects. Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, etc, wouldn't even exist without massive U.S. Army Corps of Engineers projects in the 19th century that made the harsh desert habitable.
anamax 14y ago
> "High-speed rail is going to break CA financially." When I hear this, I wonder what the west would be like if people had said the same of all the infrastructure we rely on in the west today. There are several huge differences between then and now. The big one is that that infrastructure exists. High speed rail can't make a 10x difference on any factor. That infrastructure did, usually on multiple factors. Another is that that infrastructure was relatively cheap. We didn't "bet the economy" on it. CA's high-speed rail is betting CA's economy. (Govt then was roughly 3% of GDP. If it had failed, no big deal. That's not true now.) A related factor is that we didn't have as much govt debt then as now. > High speed rail may not be as critical as water, but it's ridiculous to think we can't build a modern railroad today. High speed rail isn't at all critical in CA or across the US. > If we can't build a modern railroad today then we're already broken. HSR is technically possible, but that doesn't imply that it's a good idea. > And if we're already broken, what do we have to lose? That's insane. I note that you didn't address freight....

by redwood 14y ago

rayiner 14y ago

This is absolutely right. Chicago exploded from a settlement of a few thousand people in 1840 to one of the five largest cities in the world, with over a million people, in 1890. This growth was contemporaneous with the expansion of the railroads out west and Chicago's status as the major U.S. rail hub. And it's also absolutely right that it's ridiculous for people out west to complain about the intractability of big infrastructure projects. Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, etc, wouldn't even exist without massive U.S. Army Corps of Engineers projects in the 19th century that made the harsh desert habitable.

anamax 14y ago

> "High-speed rail is going to break CA financially." When I hear this, I wonder what the west would be like if people had said the same of all the infrastructure we rely on in the west today. There are several huge differences between then and now. The big one is that that infrastructure exists. High speed rail can't make a 10x difference on any factor. That infrastructure did, usually on multiple factors. Another is that that infrastructure was relatively cheap. We didn't "bet the economy" on it. CA's high-speed rail is betting CA's economy. (Govt then was roughly 3% of GDP. If it had failed, no big deal. That's not true now.) A related factor is that we didn't have as much govt debt then as now. > High speed rail may not be as critical as water, but it's ridiculous to think we can't build a modern railroad today. High speed rail isn't at all critical in CA or across the US. > If we can't build a modern railroad today then we're already broken. HSR is technically possible, but that doesn't imply that it's a good idea. > And if we're already broken, what do we have to lose? That's insane. I note that you didn't address freight....