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I live in France for the last 5 years. Been to many places in the world. France is OK overall.

mytailorisrich 2y ago
Well I am French. "OK overall" is obviously good but at global scale this means better than the "third world", so context is important. The context of my previous reply is France's "direction of travel", which negative like most other European countries. This is a key metric on any meaningful timescale, which is what ultimately matters.
- buybackoff 2y ago
  I beliebe you are talking about the first derivative. I want to believe the second is all right lately. The scariest thing in France I've seen is ~20yo voting for Mel-the-leftist-egocentric-schmuck so that they could keep doing nothing but taxing productive people. Other that that the "direction of travel" is dual: either drown in the mire of ever increasing taxes or kick ass. My feeling is that France has everything for the later, but for some weird reason prefers the former. Yet, in the meantime, it's OK. And the very latest geopolitics headlines are nice, if they ever come true. My original point was about individual rights. I'm glad the country stands firm on that.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    I agree with you. On individual rights I would qualify that by saying that France has never been leading on them. The state is what matters and individual rights have always in practice been restricted to that effect.
    - buybackoff 2y ago
      I admit ambiguity, but I meant 180 opposite. I believe France is and has been the top at individual freedom. That perception is an important reason I'm there, so I acted on it.
      - Cyph0n 2y ago
        How can you say that when individuals are not allowed to show religious symbols or wear religious clothing in any government-affiliated setting? I don’t see how state-enforced irreligiousness (secularism/laicite) doesn’t completely contradict with individual freedoms.
        buybackoff 2y ago
        Cela s'appelle la laïcité. If you have problems with that there are so many 3rd world countries that care about medieval stuff more than development. I think laïcité is one of the coolest words/concept, France should only really enforce it further.
        Cyph0n 2y ago
        Whatever floats your boat. But claiming that France is the pinnacle of maintaining individual freedoms contradicts with a nanny state that polices religious expression. You can’t have it both ways.
        buybackoff 2y ago
        It's water that floats anyone's boats. It's the physics+linguistics. The problems start when people try to substitute the meaning of things.
        realusername 2y ago
        Keeping religion out of the state is a good thing, the previous statu quo in France before that used to be that the Christians were policing everybody. We can see now in the US how not having this concept is creating a lot of social issues with Cristian fundamentalists running the state.
        whatevertrevor 2y ago
        There's a significant difference between separating the state's concerns from religious dogma, and restricting an individual's ability to dress in accordance with their belief system. I have wondered if jeans would be banned in France if one made a religion with only wearing jeans in public as its dogma. And before I get any questions about it, I say this as a lifelong atheist.
- Braxton1980 2y ago
  What key metric and what's your source

Well I am French. "OK overall" is obviously good but at global scale this means better than the "third world", so context is important. The context of my previous reply is France's "direction of travel", which negative like most other European countries. This is a key metric on any meaningful timescale, which is what ultimately matters.

buybackoff 2y ago
I beliebe you are talking about the first derivative. I want to believe the second is all right lately. The scariest thing in France I've seen is ~20yo voting for Mel-the-leftist-egocentric-schmuck so that they could keep doing nothing but taxing productive people. Other that that the "direction of travel" is dual: either drown in the mire of ever increasing taxes or kick ass. My feeling is that France has everything for the later, but for some weird reason prefers the former. Yet, in the meantime, it's OK. And the very latest geopolitics headlines are nice, if they ever come true. My original point was about individual rights. I'm glad the country stands firm on that.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  I agree with you. On individual rights I would qualify that by saying that France has never been leading on them. The state is what matters and individual rights have always in practice been restricted to that effect.
  - buybackoff 2y ago
    I admit ambiguity, but I meant 180 opposite. I believe France is and has been the top at individual freedom. That perception is an important reason I'm there, so I acted on it.
    - Cyph0n 2y ago
      How can you say that when individuals are not allowed to show religious symbols or wear religious clothing in any government-affiliated setting? I don’t see how state-enforced irreligiousness (secularism/laicite) doesn’t completely contradict with individual freedoms.
      - buybackoff 2y ago
        Cela s'appelle la laïcité. If you have problems with that there are so many 3rd world countries that care about medieval stuff more than development. I think laïcité is one of the coolest words/concept, France should only really enforce it further.
        Cyph0n 2y ago
        Whatever floats your boat. But claiming that France is the pinnacle of maintaining individual freedoms contradicts with a nanny state that polices religious expression. You can’t have it both ways.
        buybackoff 2y ago
        It's water that floats anyone's boats. It's the physics+linguistics. The problems start when people try to substitute the meaning of things.
        realusername 2y ago
        Keeping religion out of the state is a good thing, the previous statu quo in France before that used to be that the Christians were policing everybody. We can see now in the US how not having this concept is creating a lot of social issues with Cristian fundamentalists running the state.
        whatevertrevor 2y ago
        There's a significant difference between separating the state's concerns from religious dogma, and restricting an individual's ability to dress in accordance with their belief system. I have wondered if jeans would be banned in France if one made a religion with only wearing jeans in public as its dogma. And before I get any questions about it, I say this as a lifelong atheist.
Braxton1980 2y ago
What key metric and what's your source