3 ms·

Wouldn't law enforcement just use Pegasus style zero-days to spy on the their targets? So why all the hubbub about making backdoors that become vulnerabilities

Wouldn't law enforcement just use Pegasus style zero-days to spy on the their targets? So why all the hubbub about making backdoors that become vulnerabilities for nefarious users too? Like why bother convicting Signal to create a backdoor for you, when you can put your nations geniuses to find some RCE bugs in Qualcomm or Apple modems or SoCs, and spy on them that way? This way nobody's the wiser.

whatshisface 2y ago
Governments around the world do not want to stop at the identifiable target. They'd like to imitate the US and China, obtaining special deals with service providers that allow them to collect summary statistics and identify individuals computationally from the total of all communication. Here are a few uses for total surveillance: 1. Public opinion can be monitored on a much more objective level than polling provides. 2. Discontent can be identified long before potential protestors are aware of others who share their views. 3. People whose views are significantly outside the usual range can be picked out and targeted in advance of any crime, even when no crime would occur. 4. Serious attempts at labor or protest organization can be resolved into definite schedules with more basis for comparison to other events than the participants themselves have access to. 5. There would be no more electoral surprises. From this list, you may notice that states that are presently democratic have even more of a use for this capability than the others.
bdelmas 2y ago
I feel like they would reserve this type of hack to international criminal organizations (plus terrorists and bad countries) but not for smaller fish.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  The smaller fish, as you say, could just talk in person like they used to.
stop50 2y ago
There are still methods that are unbroken. Onetime pad: messages are encrypted using an key that has the same length as the message An enigmalike machine: the enigma has some problems, but that can easily be fixed. If someone uses more complicated keys than AAA they should be safe from reading the messages.
astrobe_ 2y ago
I think the interior minister pushes for the easier solution. What you talk about is most likely illegal currently (and law enforcement usually cannot do illegal stuff unless explicitly permitted by law and a supervised by a judge) and requires highly qualified staff. Hooking an AI to a backdoor is just easier and cheaper.
jmull3n 2y ago
I suspect Five Eyes already has backdoors into Apple and Google and can remotely push compromised updates to specific targeted devices. How do you know the version of Signal you get from the App Store is the same as everyone else? Australia can compel engineers to implement backdoors, they can't refuse or even talk about it due to gag orders. They can then share that info with Five Eyes to bypass their own laws like they did with ANOM. Australia ran the operation specifically to bypass stronger privacy laws in the other countries. The Snowden leaks with PRISM, showing governments getting data straight from Apple and Google servers. Australia's latest encryption bill lets them force companies to give access to encrypted comms. Seems pretty plausible to me.

whatshisface 2y ago

Governments around the world do not want to stop at the identifiable target. They'd like to imitate the US and China, obtaining special deals with service providers that allow them to collect summary statistics and identify individuals computationally from the total of all communication. Here are a few uses for total surveillance: 1. Public opinion can be monitored on a much more objective level than polling provides. 2. Discontent can be identified long before potential protestors are aware of others who share their views. 3. People whose views are significantly outside the usual range can be picked out and targeted in advance of any crime, even when no crime would occur. 4. Serious attempts at labor or protest organization can be resolved into definite schedules with more basis for comparison to other events than the participants themselves have access to. 5. There would be no more electoral surprises. From this list, you may notice that states that are presently democratic have even more of a use for this capability than the others.

bdelmas 2y ago

I feel like they would reserve this type of hack to international criminal organizations (plus terrorists and bad countries) but not for smaller fish.

whatshisface 2y ago
The smaller fish, as you say, could just talk in person like they used to.

stop50 2y ago

There are still methods that are unbroken. Onetime pad: messages are encrypted using an key that has the same length as the message An enigmalike machine: the enigma has some problems, but that can easily be fixed. If someone uses more complicated keys than AAA they should be safe from reading the messages.

astrobe_ 2y ago

I think the interior minister pushes for the easier solution. What you talk about is most likely illegal currently (and law enforcement usually cannot do illegal stuff unless explicitly permitted by law and a supervised by a judge) and requires highly qualified staff. Hooking an AI to a backdoor is just easier and cheaper.

jmull3n 2y ago

I suspect Five Eyes already has backdoors into Apple and Google and can remotely push compromised updates to specific targeted devices. How do you know the version of Signal you get from the App Store is the same as everyone else? Australia can compel engineers to implement backdoors, they can't refuse or even talk about it due to gag orders. They can then share that info with Five Eyes to bypass their own laws like they did with ANOM. Australia ran the operation specifically to bypass stronger privacy laws in the other countries. The Snowden leaks with PRISM, showing governments getting data straight from Apple and Google servers. Australia's latest encryption bill lets them force companies to give access to encrypted comms. Seems pretty plausible to me.