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France is in decay with incompetent and unpatriotic governments for decades. It is facing many issues but has lacked strong leadership courageous enough to put

France is in decay with incompetent and unpatriotic governments for decades. It is facing many issues but has lacked strong leadership courageous enough to put country first. So, in fact, it is a fairly typical European country... The spread of "narcotrafic" is an example of that, there are others. If you follow French news you'll see many.

buybackoff 2y ago
I live in France for the last 5 years. Been to many places in the world. France is OK overall.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  Well I am French. "OK overall" is obviously good but at global scale this means better than the "third world", so context is important. The context of my previous reply is France's "direction of travel", which negative like most other European countries. This is a key metric on any meaningful timescale, which is what ultimately matters.
  - buybackoff 2y ago
    I beliebe you are talking about the first derivative. I want to believe the second is all right lately. The scariest thing in France I've seen is ~20yo voting for Mel-the-leftist-egocentric-schmuck so that they could keep doing nothing but taxing productive people. Other that that the "direction of travel" is dual: either drown in the mire of ever increasing taxes or kick ass. My feeling is that France has everything for the later, but for some weird reason prefers the former. Yet, in the meantime, it's OK. And the very latest geopolitics headlines are nice, if they ever come true. My original point was about individual rights. I'm glad the country stands firm on that.
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      I agree with you. On individual rights I would qualify that by saying that France has never been leading on them. The state is what matters and individual rights have always in practice been restricted to that effect.
      - buybackoff 2y ago
        I admit ambiguity, but I meant 180 opposite. I believe France is and has been the top at individual freedom. That perception is an important reason I'm there, so I acted on it.
        Cyph0n 2y ago
        How can you say that when individuals are not allowed to show religious symbols or wear religious clothing in any government-affiliated setting? I don’t see how state-enforced irreligiousness (secularism/laicite) doesn’t completely contradict with individual freedoms.
        buybackoff 2y ago
        Cela s'appelle la laïcité. If you have problems with that there are so many 3rd world countries that care about medieval stuff more than development. I think laïcité is one of the coolest words/concept, France should only really enforce it further.
        Cyph0n 2y ago
        Whatever floats your boat. But claiming that France is the pinnacle of maintaining individual freedoms contradicts with a nanny state that polices religious expression. You can’t have it both ways.
        buybackoff 2y ago
        It's water that floats anyone's boats. It's the physics+linguistics. The problems start when people try to substitute the meaning of things.
  - Braxton1980 2y ago
    What key metric and what's your source
kergonath 2y ago
> France is in decay with incompetent and unpatriotic governments for decades. What are you on about? What does the "unpatriotic" bit have to do with anything? > It is facing many issues but has lacked strong leadership courageous enough to put country first. Right. What would "putting country first" mean? France is doing what it wanted to do for decades, which is consolidating European power to its advantage. Is that what you consider unpatriotic? If so, I have bad news for you: France is a great country, but absolutely does not have the resources for its ambitions on its own. > If you follow French news you'll see many. If you follow sources related to reality in any way you’ll see that some things are getting better and some things are getting worse. What does not change is the agitation about safety and security to make people afraid of their own shadow, even as the situation is quite clear: the country is safer than it has ever been. You have a valid point hidden somewhere, it’s that the people were shortchanged and that inequality is rising. You are badly misguided if you think that this has anything to do with patriotism. In fact, the people pushing this narrative have their own interests to look after in the class struggle. They might make you think that they have the same enemies as the people but they are just looking after their own. Just look at any country in which the local nationalists came to power.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  Good attempt at caricature or is it humour?
- JodieBenitez 2y ago
  > the situation is quite clear: the country is safer than it has ever been False. https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/content/download/135975/1076724/file/IA-64_V3-3.pdf https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/content/download/135975/107672...
- rdm_blackhole 2y ago
  Crime is under-reported in France because most people know that wasting your time to go to a police station to report a small crime is basically useless as nothing will come out of it. I have talked about it on this forum. I have had my car broken into multiple times in France, and each time I had to file a police report. Guess how many times the culprits were caught? A big fat zero. So the statistics look good. But what about the reality? Do you think a women coming home at night is felling safer now than she would have been 30 years ago? I don't think so. Not too mention the rampant Islamism that has taken over entire suburbs were women are not free to wear what they want and the cops don't go there unless they have the CRS (riot police) with them to protect them in case something goes wrong.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
skrebbel 2y ago
I found the Front National guy!

buybackoff 2y ago

I live in France for the last 5 years. Been to many places in the world. France is OK overall.

mytailorisrich 2y ago
Well I am French. "OK overall" is obviously good but at global scale this means better than the "third world", so context is important. The context of my previous reply is France's "direction of travel", which negative like most other European countries. This is a key metric on any meaningful timescale, which is what ultimately matters.
- buybackoff 2y ago
  I beliebe you are talking about the first derivative. I want to believe the second is all right lately. The scariest thing in France I've seen is ~20yo voting for Mel-the-leftist-egocentric-schmuck so that they could keep doing nothing but taxing productive people. Other that that the "direction of travel" is dual: either drown in the mire of ever increasing taxes or kick ass. My feeling is that France has everything for the later, but for some weird reason prefers the former. Yet, in the meantime, it's OK. And the very latest geopolitics headlines are nice, if they ever come true. My original point was about individual rights. I'm glad the country stands firm on that.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    I agree with you. On individual rights I would qualify that by saying that France has never been leading on them. The state is what matters and individual rights have always in practice been restricted to that effect.
    - buybackoff 2y ago
      I admit ambiguity, but I meant 180 opposite. I believe France is and has been the top at individual freedom. That perception is an important reason I'm there, so I acted on it.
      - Cyph0n 2y ago
        How can you say that when individuals are not allowed to show religious symbols or wear religious clothing in any government-affiliated setting? I don’t see how state-enforced irreligiousness (secularism/laicite) doesn’t completely contradict with individual freedoms.
        buybackoff 2y ago
        Cela s'appelle la laïcité. If you have problems with that there are so many 3rd world countries that care about medieval stuff more than development. I think laïcité is one of the coolest words/concept, France should only really enforce it further.
        Cyph0n 2y ago
        Whatever floats your boat. But claiming that France is the pinnacle of maintaining individual freedoms contradicts with a nanny state that polices religious expression. You can’t have it both ways.
        buybackoff 2y ago
        It's water that floats anyone's boats. It's the physics+linguistics. The problems start when people try to substitute the meaning of things.
- Braxton1980 2y ago
  What key metric and what's your source

kergonath 2y ago

> France is in decay with incompetent and unpatriotic governments for decades. What are you on about? What does the "unpatriotic" bit have to do with anything? > It is facing many issues but has lacked strong leadership courageous enough to put country first. Right. What would "putting country first" mean? France is doing what it wanted to do for decades, which is consolidating European power to its advantage. Is that what you consider unpatriotic? If so, I have bad news for you: France is a great country, but absolutely does not have the resources for its ambitions on its own. > If you follow French news you'll see many. If you follow sources related to reality in any way you’ll see that some things are getting better and some things are getting worse. What does not change is the agitation about safety and security to make people afraid of their own shadow, even as the situation is quite clear: the country is safer than it has ever been. You have a valid point hidden somewhere, it’s that the people were shortchanged and that inequality is rising. You are badly misguided if you think that this has anything to do with patriotism. In fact, the people pushing this narrative have their own interests to look after in the class struggle. They might make you think that they have the same enemies as the people but they are just looking after their own. Just look at any country in which the local nationalists came to power.

mytailorisrich 2y ago
Good attempt at caricature or is it humour?
JodieBenitez 2y ago
> the situation is quite clear: the country is safer than it has ever been False. https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/content/download/135975/1076724/file/IA-64_V3-3.pdf https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/content/download/135975/107672...
rdm_blackhole 2y ago
Crime is under-reported in France because most people know that wasting your time to go to a police station to report a small crime is basically useless as nothing will come out of it. I have talked about it on this forum. I have had my car broken into multiple times in France, and each time I had to file a police report. Guess how many times the culprits were caught? A big fat zero. So the statistics look good. But what about the reality? Do you think a women coming home at night is felling safer now than she would have been 30 years ago? I don't think so. Not too mention the rampant Islamism that has taken over entire suburbs were women are not free to wear what they want and the cops don't go there unless they have the CRS (riot police) with them to protect them in case something goes wrong.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

skrebbel 2y ago

I found the Front National guy!