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Is that simpler? The success rate of asking people to eat less meat has got to be vanishingly small. Anyone who cares about greenhouse gases already knows the i

Is that simpler? The success rate of asking people to eat less meat has got to be vanishingly small. Anyone who cares about greenhouse gases already knows the impact from livestock and have made their choices. Also, the two approaches are not mutually exclusive.

PaulHoule 2y ago
(1) Plant-based milks are not superior to cow milk in nutrition, I'd say that almond milk is closer to soda pop than skim milk and not as good as eating the almonds. Almond milk from California almonds is a greater drain on water resources than cow milk from upstate NY. (2) Animal agriculture isn't necessarily bad ecologically. Yes, you have to feed 3N to 20N units of food to an animal to get N units of food, but those could be some food that humans can't eat, like grass, that can be produced without tilling the land, on steep slopes for instance. On a large scale an animal feeding operation produces a dangerous amount of waste, on a small scale that "waste" gets put back on the land and builds fertility and soil carbon. Our farm was beautiful when we bought it 25 years ago but our horse operation has made it even more beautiful and productive (of hay and pasture grass) because we import nutrients in the form of grain and hay and feed back 100% of the "waste" to the soil. I don't know what effect is has on the global carbon balance but I can see the local consequences of building soil carbon.
- neuralRiot 2y ago
  > (1) Plant-based milks are not superior to cow milk in nutrition. Why would anybody rely upon milk as a nutritional source (be it animal or plant based) is a mistery to me. The only mammal that consumes milk (and from a different species on top of it) is humans. > (2) Animal agriculture isn't necessarily bad ecologically. Yes, you have to feed 3N to 20N units of food to an animal to get N units of food, but those could be some food that humans can't eat, like grass, that can be produced without tilling the land, on steep slopes for instance. On a large scale an animal feeding operation produces a dangerous amount of waste, on a small scale that "waste" gets put back on the land and builds fertility and soil carbon. I understand the romantic idea of cows peacefully grazing on green fields but grassfed beef is even less efficient than their feedlot counterpart and completely unsustainable at the current scale of consumption. To reduce consumption simply eliminate the billions of dollars in subsidies and promotions. I’m not expecting to see anything remotely close to that in my lifetime though.
  - TheNewsIsHere 2y ago
    > The only mammal that consumes milk (and from a different species on top of it) is humans. Surely you mean the only mammal that consumes milk -after weaning- is humans?
    - neuralRiot 2y ago
      Yes, sorry for the typo, i saw the mistake but too late to edit it. Thanks for pointing it out.
TheNewsIsHere 2y ago
It’s probably not very successful, at least here in the U.S. Americans have a strange obsession with meat. I’ve known people who think things like “it’s not a meal unless there’s meat”. The American diet tends to have far too much meat anyway.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  Try Germany. The most popular thing at the zoo is when they feed the tigers because the locals get so much pleasure watching them eat.

PaulHoule 2y ago

(1) Plant-based milks are not superior to cow milk in nutrition, I'd say that almond milk is closer to soda pop than skim milk and not as good as eating the almonds. Almond milk from California almonds is a greater drain on water resources than cow milk from upstate NY. (2) Animal agriculture isn't necessarily bad ecologically. Yes, you have to feed 3N to 20N units of food to an animal to get N units of food, but those could be some food that humans can't eat, like grass, that can be produced without tilling the land, on steep slopes for instance. On a large scale an animal feeding operation produces a dangerous amount of waste, on a small scale that "waste" gets put back on the land and builds fertility and soil carbon. Our farm was beautiful when we bought it 25 years ago but our horse operation has made it even more beautiful and productive (of hay and pasture grass) because we import nutrients in the form of grain and hay and feed back 100% of the "waste" to the soil. I don't know what effect is has on the global carbon balance but I can see the local consequences of building soil carbon.

neuralRiot 2y ago
> (1) Plant-based milks are not superior to cow milk in nutrition. Why would anybody rely upon milk as a nutritional source (be it animal or plant based) is a mistery to me. The only mammal that consumes milk (and from a different species on top of it) is humans. > (2) Animal agriculture isn't necessarily bad ecologically. Yes, you have to feed 3N to 20N units of food to an animal to get N units of food, but those could be some food that humans can't eat, like grass, that can be produced without tilling the land, on steep slopes for instance. On a large scale an animal feeding operation produces a dangerous amount of waste, on a small scale that "waste" gets put back on the land and builds fertility and soil carbon. I understand the romantic idea of cows peacefully grazing on green fields but grassfed beef is even less efficient than their feedlot counterpart and completely unsustainable at the current scale of consumption. To reduce consumption simply eliminate the billions of dollars in subsidies and promotions. I’m not expecting to see anything remotely close to that in my lifetime though.
- TheNewsIsHere 2y ago
  > The only mammal that consumes milk (and from a different species on top of it) is humans. Surely you mean the only mammal that consumes milk -after weaning- is humans?
  - neuralRiot 2y ago
    Yes, sorry for the typo, i saw the mistake but too late to edit it. Thanks for pointing it out.

TheNewsIsHere 2y ago

It’s probably not very successful, at least here in the U.S. Americans have a strange obsession with meat. I’ve known people who think things like “it’s not a meal unless there’s meat”. The American diet tends to have far too much meat anyway.

PaulHoule 2y ago
Try Germany. The most popular thing at the zoo is when they feed the tigers because the locals get so much pleasure watching them eat.