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It's a fantastic looking piece of hardware, but that price is hard to swallow given that PC VR has been on life support for years and there isn't really any sig

It's a fantastic looking piece of hardware, but that price is hard to swallow given that PC VR has been on life support for years and there isn't really any signs of it making a comeback. The content still being made for VR almost exclusively targets Quest standalone as the lead (or only) platform since that's where >90% of the money is. Nobody aside from Valve can afford to make a "too big for Quest" title like HL:Alyx.

crooked-v 2y ago
I think it's really worth keeping in mind that this is an ultra-enthusiast product: they're specifically targeting the niche of people who spend a huge amount of time in VR and probably in only a handful of the same apps every time (piloting/racing sims, VRChat, etc). The value prop here is effectively "this is a quality- and comfort-increasing upgrade to the thing you already spend all your free time doing".
- cosmic_cheese 2y ago
  Beat Saber is another big title for VR enthusiasts. For the past couple of years I’ve been using BS custom maps to add some consistently fun cardio to my days and have logged almost as many hours as I spent on WoW back in my high school and uni days.
  - kbouck 2y ago
    Beat Saber with custom songs is the killer app for VR
    - gnarlouse 2y ago
      Is that a sad statement? That seems like a sad statement.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - cosmic_cheese 2y ago
        Maybe, but I think it’s more of an idictment of game studios’ collective attitude toward VR and still-underdeveloped hardware (IMO, we’re only now starting to approach VR headsets’ “final form” with units like the Bigscreen Beyond and MeganeX). Way, way too many game studios approached VR the same way they might a new graphics feature like raytracing or HDR. “Bolt it on and they’ll come” basically, which obviously didn’t pan out. Unsurpringly the titles that took flight were those where VR was integral to the experience and added lasting novelty — “AAA game but with VR” is just not that interesting (unless it’s a free community-developed mod, maybe). Of course, it’s much more difficult and risky to develop VR-first games like that. With studios being more profit-driven and risk-averse than ever, that’s a recipe for vanishingly few new flagship VR games being developed. It’s a safer bet to develop yet another faceless loot box driven Fortnite/Counterstrike/etc clone or gacha game.
      - numpad0 2y ago
        Or an indication that VR killer apps exist strictly inside NSFW domains(but that also implicates those elaborate driving/piloting simulator rigs are somehow NSFW too)
  - cubefox 2y ago
    Beat Saber runs perfectly fine on a standalone Meta Quest, so it is exactly not aimed at the "VR enthusiasts" who would invest a lot of money into PC VR devices like Bigscreen Beyond 2.
    - cosmic_cheese 2y ago
      It does, but modding the Quest version is notoriously more fussy than modding the PC version is, and the heft of the Quest can get annoying when playing custom maps (most of which are vastly more physically demanding than the stock maps).
    - dharmab 2y ago
      Once you get beyond the stock content, the Quest version and Quest controllers hold you back.
    - Stephen304 2y ago
      Not some of the effects heavy custom beatsaber maps. Also vivify hasn't been ported to quest beatsaber afaik so they're still missing out on all the crazy new maps with custom unity assets and environments.
- dharmab 2y ago
  Yeah, there's a market of people who are willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars for marginal improvements to VR. There are communities who spend about as much time in VRChat as they do in meatspace. And plenty of older folks who are into motorsport and aviation where the cost of a headset is trivial compared to running costs of a sports car or airplane.
canuckintime 2y ago
Bigscreen made their name as VR video viewing solution before pivoting to PCVR hardware. I’m surprised they haven’t shown off any simple video solution with Beyond 2 especially considering that’s the main use case for the Apple Vision Pro. That said, eye tracking and IPD adjustment is a huge upgrade to Beyond 2 for their niche
tavavex 2y ago
Bigscreen as a company isn't really looking to expand the VR market, it's just making an enthusiast-grade product aimed at people who know exactly what they want. Quest focuses on being a smartphone-like device with an integrated ecosystem, while Beyond is more of a PC peripheral for using Bigscreen the app, video content, social VR and some simulators. The audience for these things is small, but pretty dedicated, so it makes sense to offer a high-end solution targeting just them.
bsimpson 2y ago
Valve had an early lead with the Index and has plenty of titles in its store that were designed for the Index. Then Oculus came along with the Quest and many of the titles were ported over there. People who prefer Valve to Facebook, or who want a device-agnostic software library, might prefer buying from Steam. However, many of these games have been basically abandoned on Steam. Even though Quest ports exist, the versions on Steam may have controls that don't work with Quest controllers over Steam Link.
t-writescode 2y ago
The VRChat userbase and the Flight/Racing Sim userbases are both thriving and very, very, *very* interested in continuing to have very good VR options; and both of those userbases have the money to keep companies like BSB and Vive alive. I feel like some parts of the HN crowd are oblivious to the advancements and continued, impressive work that happens in the VR Space, just because a VR game isn't (for the time being) going to sell a million copies, but it will very comfortably sell to a 100k userbase that want to spend that money.

crooked-v 2y ago

I think it's really worth keeping in mind that this is an ultra-enthusiast product: they're specifically targeting the niche of people who spend a huge amount of time in VR and probably in only a handful of the same apps every time (piloting/racing sims, VRChat, etc). The value prop here is effectively "this is a quality- and comfort-increasing upgrade to the thing you already spend all your free time doing".

cosmic_cheese 2y ago
Beat Saber is another big title for VR enthusiasts. For the past couple of years I’ve been using BS custom maps to add some consistently fun cardio to my days and have logged almost as many hours as I spent on WoW back in my high school and uni days.
- kbouck 2y ago
  Beat Saber with custom songs is the killer app for VR
  - gnarlouse 2y ago
    Is that a sad statement? That seems like a sad statement.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - cosmic_cheese 2y ago
      Maybe, but I think it’s more of an idictment of game studios’ collective attitude toward VR and still-underdeveloped hardware (IMO, we’re only now starting to approach VR headsets’ “final form” with units like the Bigscreen Beyond and MeganeX). Way, way too many game studios approached VR the same way they might a new graphics feature like raytracing or HDR. “Bolt it on and they’ll come” basically, which obviously didn’t pan out. Unsurpringly the titles that took flight were those where VR was integral to the experience and added lasting novelty — “AAA game but with VR” is just not that interesting (unless it’s a free community-developed mod, maybe). Of course, it’s much more difficult and risky to develop VR-first games like that. With studios being more profit-driven and risk-averse than ever, that’s a recipe for vanishingly few new flagship VR games being developed. It’s a safer bet to develop yet another faceless loot box driven Fortnite/Counterstrike/etc clone or gacha game.
    - numpad0 2y ago
      Or an indication that VR killer apps exist strictly inside NSFW domains(but that also implicates those elaborate driving/piloting simulator rigs are somehow NSFW too)
- cubefox 2y ago
  Beat Saber runs perfectly fine on a standalone Meta Quest, so it is exactly not aimed at the "VR enthusiasts" who would invest a lot of money into PC VR devices like Bigscreen Beyond 2.
  - cosmic_cheese 2y ago
    It does, but modding the Quest version is notoriously more fussy than modding the PC version is, and the heft of the Quest can get annoying when playing custom maps (most of which are vastly more physically demanding than the stock maps).
  - dharmab 2y ago
    Once you get beyond the stock content, the Quest version and Quest controllers hold you back.
  - Stephen304 2y ago
    Not some of the effects heavy custom beatsaber maps. Also vivify hasn't been ported to quest beatsaber afaik so they're still missing out on all the crazy new maps with custom unity assets and environments.
dharmab 2y ago
Yeah, there's a market of people who are willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars for marginal improvements to VR. There are communities who spend about as much time in VRChat as they do in meatspace. And plenty of older folks who are into motorsport and aviation where the cost of a headset is trivial compared to running costs of a sports car or airplane.

canuckintime 2y ago

Bigscreen made their name as VR video viewing solution before pivoting to PCVR hardware. I’m surprised they haven’t shown off any simple video solution with Beyond 2 especially considering that’s the main use case for the Apple Vision Pro. That said, eye tracking and IPD adjustment is a huge upgrade to Beyond 2 for their niche

tavavex 2y ago

Bigscreen as a company isn't really looking to expand the VR market, it's just making an enthusiast-grade product aimed at people who know exactly what they want. Quest focuses on being a smartphone-like device with an integrated ecosystem, while Beyond is more of a PC peripheral for using Bigscreen the app, video content, social VR and some simulators. The audience for these things is small, but pretty dedicated, so it makes sense to offer a high-end solution targeting just them.

bsimpson 2y ago

Valve had an early lead with the Index and has plenty of titles in its store that were designed for the Index. Then Oculus came along with the Quest and many of the titles were ported over there. People who prefer Valve to Facebook, or who want a device-agnostic software library, might prefer buying from Steam. However, many of these games have been basically abandoned on Steam. Even though Quest ports exist, the versions on Steam may have controls that don't work with Quest controllers over Steam Link.

t-writescode 2y ago

The VRChat userbase and the Flight/Racing Sim userbases are both thriving and very, very, *very* interested in continuing to have very good VR options; and both of those userbases have the money to keep companies like BSB and Vive alive. I feel like some parts of the HN crowd are oblivious to the advancements and continued, impressive work that happens in the VR Space, just because a VR game isn't (for the time being) going to sell a million copies, but it will very comfortably sell to a 100k userbase that want to spend that money.