2 ms·

> One of the loudest criticisms of congestion pricing is that it “forces people to take the unsafe subway.” Putting aside the fact that the subway is already fa

by bko 2y ago

> One of the loudest criticisms of congestion pricing is that it “forces people to take the unsafe subway.” Putting aside the fact that the subway is already far safer than driving, increased transit ridership has driven down subway crime as more “eyes on the train” reduce the appeal of crime and make the system more safe. I take issue with the framing of this. Sure public transport is "safe" as in you are very unlikely to get assaulted or murdered. But I think most people use that word as a stand in for general unpleasant experience. If you have to avoid a train car because someone decided to camp out there, or you nearly get kicked in the head by a subway dancer, you're not exactly not "safe" but you'd rather not be there.

hexator 2y ago
[flagged]
wussboy 2y ago
I don’t think it’s unfair. Both of the issues you mentioned (campers and dancers) are less likely to happen as ridership increases.
- novia 2y ago
  How will they decrease without enforcement of the rules?
  - wussboy 2y ago
    Do you think that only the police enforce rules? No. We are part of a society, and long before there were police, society found ways to moderate behaviour.
mplanchard 2y ago
In the realm of minor inconveniences, I'd rather get nearly kicked in the head by a subway dancer or deal with seeing a homeless person than get into a fender bender and have to deal with insurance, body work, etc. In the realm of major inconveniences, I'd much rather deal with someone being aggressive on the subway than be in a major car crash.
ARandumGuy 2y ago
Being uncomfortable != being unsafe. It's not wrong to feel uncomfortable around, say, drug users or homeless people. And it's valid to complain about that! But that does not mean you're actually unsafe, and conflating that just isn't helpful.
- bko 2y ago
  I don't know, I feel kind of unsafe around drug users. People feel unsafe around people that don't abide by social norms for good reason. For instance, if someone is playing loud music on a subway, that goes against social norms. What other social norms does he refuse to follow? The social norms of personal space perhaps? A pretty high correlation there based on my experience. That's why everyone pretends that nothing is wrong and very few choose the ask this person to be respectful. And when they do, it often leads to violent confrontation. Also drugs are dangerous. I really don't want to see someone die, pass out, fall or vomit on me. It's kind of bizarre I have to make this point.
deleted 2y ago
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by bko 2y ago

hexator 2y ago

[flagged]

wussboy 2y ago

I don’t think it’s unfair. Both of the issues you mentioned (campers and dancers) are less likely to happen as ridership increases.

novia 2y ago
How will they decrease without enforcement of the rules?
- wussboy 2y ago
  Do you think that only the police enforce rules? No. We are part of a society, and long before there were police, society found ways to moderate behaviour.

mplanchard 2y ago

In the realm of minor inconveniences, I'd rather get nearly kicked in the head by a subway dancer or deal with seeing a homeless person than get into a fender bender and have to deal with insurance, body work, etc. In the realm of major inconveniences, I'd much rather deal with someone being aggressive on the subway than be in a major car crash.

ARandumGuy 2y ago

Being uncomfortable != being unsafe. It's not wrong to feel uncomfortable around, say, drug users or homeless people. And it's valid to complain about that! But that does not mean you're actually unsafe, and conflating that just isn't helpful.

bko 2y ago
I don't know, I feel kind of unsafe around drug users. People feel unsafe around people that don't abide by social norms for good reason. For instance, if someone is playing loud music on a subway, that goes against social norms. What other social norms does he refuse to follow? The social norms of personal space perhaps? A pretty high correlation there based on my experience. That's why everyone pretends that nothing is wrong and very few choose the ask this person to be respectful. And when they do, it often leads to violent confrontation. Also drugs are dangerous. I really don't want to see someone die, pass out, fall or vomit on me. It's kind of bizarre I have to make this point.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]