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Really appreciate this post as I try making the leap from Senior IC Engineer into a "next rung up" role (currently aiming for Enterprise Architect, Principal IC

Really appreciate this post as I try making the leap from Senior IC Engineer into a "next rung up" role (currently aiming for Enterprise Architect, Principal IC Engineer, or Management of ICs); it really helps explain what mindset I should be having for each phase, should I seek to continue upward growth. In the here and now, it seems like my "sweet spot" is to aim for Director in the next five years or so, regardless of the next role I eventually take (currently on the hunt due to RIF). I'm already at the point where I'm mentoring junior colleagues, delegating tasks among the team, and spending more time on tactics and strategy than daily engineering work - and that seems to fit with a Director role, albeit cross-function and cross-domain (which is what I already do, being an infra engie that can also do networking and storage and public cloud and collaboration - Senior jack of all trades). Above that (VP, etc)...I dunno, guess it depends on what kind of person I am in five years' time, after I've hit Director and had some experience in that role.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago
I think to be a manager, also 'read the room', or 'context'. Your response is just a bunch of "I this" , "I That". Nobody knows you. What does your current step in life have to do with anything, with anybody else. The "I" isn't important. At best someone that does this, could just bore everyone, or at worst could alienate, or give impression as arrogant, self centered, if you are only talking about yourself. (you didn't, but could lead to that). It is possible to phrase information in a non-self referential way. Talk about what others want to hear about.
- apwell23 2y ago
  hah yea i have very low confidence that this person is going be sucessful at their goal the way they described it seemed like the opposite of what i suggested here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43434340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43434340
  - stego-tech 2y ago
    Ya'll be reading way too much into a potential management or leadership style based on one comment about what I specifically took away from the OP and how it affected me specifically. If anything, the vibe I'm getting back is that you're the types to make strong judgements based on single sources absent broader context, which is not something I'd want in either an engineer or a leader above me, as it demonstrates a degree of inflexibility or unwillingness to be wrong. The one above you at least challenged me in a way I could respond to, rather than resorting to an insult masquerading as critique based upon one comment. Take your own advice: > Genuinely like ppl around you from your heart ( not fake it) Folks who genuinely empathize with others aren't quick to resort to anonymized slights based on limited information, in my experience. Rather, it's the fakers who all too quickly devolve into brash and flippant comments when they feel they're safe behind some sort of shield. I'm aware this is a bit hypocritical on my part saying it this way, but sometimes you gotta wade into the mud to make your case.
    - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
      That is how I meant it. Just observation. When I was younger engineer. I did 'I' self reference speech a lot. It was years later I realized it was alienating people. Now really focus more time on listening, and only speaking about what the other person is interested in. Now when others are always using "I", it just stands out at me. People really are simple, and want to talk about themselves, so if you realize this, and talk about what others want to talk about, you get along better. I picked it up from Dale Carnegie, 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...
      - apwell23 2y ago
        Yep its very for almost everyone because so much of our identity is tied around I and its very hard to let that go. I personally struggle with that a lot.
- stego-tech 2y ago
  ...yeah, I get that, and have been articulating that better through career coaching, leadership skills development, and actual work. My comment on this piece was self-referential, though, in an attempt to explain what I got from the piece, and how it affected me. Hence the extensive use of I/Me/first-person-perspective. In an actual leadership role, my role is to build and maintain the bridge between our team, their expertise, and the agendas of those above us. I champion their successes, and shelter them from unwarranted blame. I set the tone, and in order for them to be successful, it needs to be a tone they resonate positively with. It's a role that's part translator, part leader, part firewatcher, and part strategist, all on top of the usual IC stuff - at least initially, or as needed (e.g., headcount reductions, RIFs). At least for initial management roles, it's about maintaining balance - ensuring the team is productive and can succeed, without letting them burn themselves out or get dragged into "makework"/"busywork".

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

I think to be a manager, also 'read the room', or 'context'. Your response is just a bunch of "I this" , "I That". Nobody knows you. What does your current step in life have to do with anything, with anybody else. The "I" isn't important. At best someone that does this, could just bore everyone, or at worst could alienate, or give impression as arrogant, self centered, if you are only talking about yourself. (you didn't, but could lead to that). It is possible to phrase information in a non-self referential way. Talk about what others want to hear about.

apwell23 2y ago
hah yea i have very low confidence that this person is going be sucessful at their goal the way they described it seemed like the opposite of what i suggested here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43434340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43434340
- stego-tech 2y ago
  Ya'll be reading way too much into a potential management or leadership style based on one comment about what I specifically took away from the OP and how it affected me specifically. If anything, the vibe I'm getting back is that you're the types to make strong judgements based on single sources absent broader context, which is not something I'd want in either an engineer or a leader above me, as it demonstrates a degree of inflexibility or unwillingness to be wrong. The one above you at least challenged me in a way I could respond to, rather than resorting to an insult masquerading as critique based upon one comment. Take your own advice: > Genuinely like ppl around you from your heart ( not fake it) Folks who genuinely empathize with others aren't quick to resort to anonymized slights based on limited information, in my experience. Rather, it's the fakers who all too quickly devolve into brash and flippant comments when they feel they're safe behind some sort of shield. I'm aware this is a bit hypocritical on my part saying it this way, but sometimes you gotta wade into the mud to make your case.
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    That is how I meant it. Just observation. When I was younger engineer. I did 'I' self reference speech a lot. It was years later I realized it was alienating people. Now really focus more time on listening, and only speaking about what the other person is interested in. Now when others are always using "I", it just stands out at me. People really are simple, and want to talk about themselves, so if you realize this, and talk about what others want to talk about, you get along better. I picked it up from Dale Carnegie, 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...
    - apwell23 2y ago
      Yep its very for almost everyone because so much of our identity is tied around I and its very hard to let that go. I personally struggle with that a lot.
stego-tech 2y ago
...yeah, I get that, and have been articulating that better through career coaching, leadership skills development, and actual work. My comment on this piece was self-referential, though, in an attempt to explain what I got from the piece, and how it affected me. Hence the extensive use of I/Me/first-person-perspective. In an actual leadership role, my role is to build and maintain the bridge between our team, their expertise, and the agendas of those above us. I champion their successes, and shelter them from unwarranted blame. I set the tone, and in order for them to be successful, it needs to be a tone they resonate positively with. It's a role that's part translator, part leader, part firewatcher, and part strategist, all on top of the usual IC stuff - at least initially, or as needed (e.g., headcount reductions, RIFs). At least for initial management roles, it's about maintaining balance - ensuring the team is productive and can succeed, without letting them burn themselves out or get dragged into "makework"/"busywork".