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The reason I'm so pessimistic is the thing I said higher up in the comment chain: > The ugliest part of all of this is that if voters completely reject Trumpis

The reason I'm so pessimistic is the thing I said higher up in the comment chain: > The ugliest part of all of this is that if voters completely reject Trumpism in 2 or 4 years and go back to a sane path, they won't have done it because they were convinced of the gross immoral capriciousness of the Trump administration. The only reason American voters would reject Trumpism is if they decide he's bad for business, and caused serious economic harms. If Trump did all this crap and it made the stock and job markets boom, he'd be home free. That alone is enough for me to lose all faith in the USA and hope for a future where I can isolate myself as well as possible from the USA's malign influences and capricious actions.

JohnFen 2y ago
Most Americans aren't and never were on board with this stuff. Trump won the election by an incredibly slim margin, and that only happened because a lot of people didn't vote.
- verzali 2y ago
  I don't agree. More than seventy million people voted for him. He has been a politican for over a decade. It is not even like he was put forward by people in a smoke filled room, he was chosen through primaries. To me it's the same as above. It is too late.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    True, that many did vote for him, out of a total eligible voter population of 244,666,890. That's about 28%. And even of that group, a large number voted for him thinking that he wasn't going to do what he's doing. He even claimed in his campaign that he wasn't going to do what he's doing. I think those people were foolish, of course. As you point out, his nature was pretty obvious, but they weren't on board with what he's doing nonetheless. Regardless, I understand your skepticism and I wouldn't be shocked if you're correct. I just have a touch more optimism than that myself. Pessimism can lead all too easily to defeatism, and defeatism is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    - verzali 2y ago
      I can only hope you are right.
- eigenspace 2y ago
  In my opinion, if January 6 wasn't enough to convince the American electorate that he isn't fit for office, nothing he does could do it. I also don't believe the argument that it's a minority of Americans. If people really thought he was a danger to democracy and thought that was a problem, they would have voted. So the way I see it, the overwhelming majority of Americans (i.e. more than 70%) didn't think he posed a legitimate danger to American democracy. That's a really really worrying demonstration of beliefs and priorities. I support you in disagreeing with me though. I want you to keep fighting and I want you to do everything you can to resist this. Americans can't afford to believe they may have voted for the last time. But simultaneously, the rest of us can't afford to plug our ears and hope this all goes away.

JohnFen 2y ago

Most Americans aren't and never were on board with this stuff. Trump won the election by an incredibly slim margin, and that only happened because a lot of people didn't vote.

verzali 2y ago
I don't agree. More than seventy million people voted for him. He has been a politican for over a decade. It is not even like he was put forward by people in a smoke filled room, he was chosen through primaries. To me it's the same as above. It is too late.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  True, that many did vote for him, out of a total eligible voter population of 244,666,890. That's about 28%. And even of that group, a large number voted for him thinking that he wasn't going to do what he's doing. He even claimed in his campaign that he wasn't going to do what he's doing. I think those people were foolish, of course. As you point out, his nature was pretty obvious, but they weren't on board with what he's doing nonetheless. Regardless, I understand your skepticism and I wouldn't be shocked if you're correct. I just have a touch more optimism than that myself. Pessimism can lead all too easily to defeatism, and defeatism is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
  - verzali 2y ago
    I can only hope you are right.
eigenspace 2y ago
In my opinion, if January 6 wasn't enough to convince the American electorate that he isn't fit for office, nothing he does could do it. I also don't believe the argument that it's a minority of Americans. If people really thought he was a danger to democracy and thought that was a problem, they would have voted. So the way I see it, the overwhelming majority of Americans (i.e. more than 70%) didn't think he posed a legitimate danger to American democracy. That's a really really worrying demonstration of beliefs and priorities. I support you in disagreeing with me though. I want you to keep fighting and I want you to do everything you can to resist this. Americans can't afford to believe they may have voted for the last time. But simultaneously, the rest of us can't afford to plug our ears and hope this all goes away.