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Current civil engineering best practices is that if a sufficient amount of traffic is violating the limit the limit is what's wrong. Several states use methods

Current civil engineering best practices is that if a sufficient amount of traffic is violating the limit the limit is what's wrong. Several states use methods consistent with this to set their speed limits generally. Many do not. Regardless, this is a distraction. Law is the codification of acceptable behavior. Rules that come with force of law should not substantially deviate from what average people consider acceptable. Furthermore, these sorts of bad laws aren't just limited to property seizure and speeding. From federal tax law to municipal zoning these is no shortage of these sorts of laws, rules with force of law and precedents that are crafted in such a manner as to give the enforcers unilateral power to take as they please and with checks limits generally only existing not to prevent abuse but to prevent the enforcers from getting so greedy that their racket gets outlawed. All examples of such laws and rules are bad and ought to be done away with. Thank you for illustrating exactly what one of the enablers of these sorts of bad policies looks like. I will leave imagining what a similar argument in favor of civil asset forfeiture looks like as an exercise for the reader.

brabel 2y ago
> Law is the codification of acceptable behavior. Good luck lobbying the town to change the speed limit. They don't care what you think about the limit, if you drive past that speed you'll have to pay. And just to rant a bit: as someone who lives on a too-straight street (but very local and with pedestrians, including, children, walking on often) where dickheads constantly drive well past the limit because they probably think they know best what's "acceptable", I would love them to get hefty fines every time they did it.
- nick__m 2y ago
  The problem is that the road design doesn't fit its usage. In an ideal world the street would be redesign so the driver naturally adopt the desired speed limit.
  - ajmurmann 2y ago
    To add to this, "redesigned" doesn't have to mean making it less straight but cheaper things like making it narrower will also slow down traffic.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  >And just to rant a bit: as someone who lives on a too-straight street (but very local and with pedestrians, including, children, walking on often) where dickheads constantly drive well past the limit because they probably think they know best what's "acceptable", I would love them to get hefty fines every time they did it. Once again, you're doing a great job illustrating how we got to the status quo we have. You're littering in the park, ideologically speaking. You want heavy handed enforcement on your pet issue. Like litter it's not a problem a a few people do it but when you multiply by every other shortsighted person who does the same and the end result is the political will to allow law enforcement to get away with beyond the pale behavior like in TFA.
- amiga386 2y ago
  > They don't care what you think about the limit The outcome for greedy, corrupt towns who enjoy profiting by abusing the law is DEATH: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio#Dissolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio#Dissolution So perhaps, for their own survival, they should care what their victims think, and not abuse their position. > as someone who lives on a too-straight street [...] where dickheads constantly drive well past the limit Then fix the street. Modern design codes call for chicanes and street furniture to narrow the street. When streets are narrow, drivers naturally slow down. A straight, wide road with a low speed limit is like a door with a handle and a sign saying "push" - and you want to fine anyone who intuitively pulls the handle.
- quickthrowman 2y ago
  The problem is with the road, not the drivers. My city has re-engineered many roads that used to have four lanes into two lane roads with a middle left turn lane along with roundabouts or curbs that ‘narrow’ the road at intersections which makes drivers slow down. Roads where traffic used to move at 45 MPH now moves at 30 MPH. Go to city council meetings and demand that the road is re-engineered instead of blaming drivers.
  - brabel 2y ago
    The road has speed bumpers already. Most streets in my area have a narrow section through which only one car can pass, so drivers going in either direction have to negotiate going through, but my street doesn't. So, drivers know very well they should keep the speed down, but unfortunately outside of making it physically impossible to go faster, people just can't help themselves doing it. It's very telling of human nature. I do think we need to blame those drivers going over anyway. Yes, people should be held accountable and be counted on fucking holding back their foot when on a small, narrow local street. This discourse that it's not the driver's fault is incredibly dishonest. Yes it is.

brabel 2y ago

> Law is the codification of acceptable behavior. Good luck lobbying the town to change the speed limit. They don't care what you think about the limit, if you drive past that speed you'll have to pay. And just to rant a bit: as someone who lives on a too-straight street (but very local and with pedestrians, including, children, walking on often) where dickheads constantly drive well past the limit because they probably think they know best what's "acceptable", I would love them to get hefty fines every time they did it.

nick__m 2y ago
The problem is that the road design doesn't fit its usage. In an ideal world the street would be redesign so the driver naturally adopt the desired speed limit.
- ajmurmann 2y ago
  To add to this, "redesigned" doesn't have to mean making it less straight but cheaper things like making it narrower will also slow down traffic.
potato3732842 2y ago
>And just to rant a bit: as someone who lives on a too-straight street (but very local and with pedestrians, including, children, walking on often) where dickheads constantly drive well past the limit because they probably think they know best what's "acceptable", I would love them to get hefty fines every time they did it. Once again, you're doing a great job illustrating how we got to the status quo we have. You're littering in the park, ideologically speaking. You want heavy handed enforcement on your pet issue. Like litter it's not a problem a a few people do it but when you multiply by every other shortsighted person who does the same and the end result is the political will to allow law enforcement to get away with beyond the pale behavior like in TFA.
amiga386 2y ago
> They don't care what you think about the limit The outcome for greedy, corrupt towns who enjoy profiting by abusing the law is DEATH: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio#Dissolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio#Dissolution So perhaps, for their own survival, they should care what their victims think, and not abuse their position. > as someone who lives on a too-straight street [...] where dickheads constantly drive well past the limit Then fix the street. Modern design codes call for chicanes and street furniture to narrow the street. When streets are narrow, drivers naturally slow down. A straight, wide road with a low speed limit is like a door with a handle and a sign saying "push" - and you want to fine anyone who intuitively pulls the handle.
quickthrowman 2y ago
The problem is with the road, not the drivers. My city has re-engineered many roads that used to have four lanes into two lane roads with a middle left turn lane along with roundabouts or curbs that ‘narrow’ the road at intersections which makes drivers slow down. Roads where traffic used to move at 45 MPH now moves at 30 MPH. Go to city council meetings and demand that the road is re-engineered instead of blaming drivers.
- brabel 2y ago
  The road has speed bumpers already. Most streets in my area have a narrow section through which only one car can pass, so drivers going in either direction have to negotiate going through, but my street doesn't. So, drivers know very well they should keep the speed down, but unfortunately outside of making it physically impossible to go faster, people just can't help themselves doing it. It's very telling of human nature. I do think we need to blame those drivers going over anyway. Yes, people should be held accountable and be counted on fucking holding back their foot when on a small, narrow local street. This discourse that it's not the driver's fault is incredibly dishonest. Yes it is.