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Yeah, I would have expected to get my ESTA denied, or denied entry at the border and shipped back. It would have never occured to me that I would be arrested fo

by doix 2y ago

Yeah, I would have expected to get my ESTA denied, or denied entry at the border and shipped back. It would have never occured to me that I would be arrested for weeks. It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. Unfortunately I need to travel to the US soon for a company (on?)off-site, and the thought is in the back of my mind. Getting off the plane and getting sent back would be annoying but whatever. Getting detained would be a nightmare.

kpmcc 2y ago
It certainly would be cheaper, but then how would the people running the arbitrary detention centers get paid?
TomK32 2y ago
We've seen a musician being detained and deported for reasons the immigration officer wouldn't share. https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-usa/ https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-us... Is the company you have to travel for affected by the tariffs or retaliatory tariffs, or is a company with the same or very similar name in such a position?
- tim333 2y ago
  One of the scariest aspects is them refusing to tell you what you did wrong. From that link >...there was another unspecified issue that they refused to disclose. I can’t help but wonder whether my frequent, and less than flattering, public comments regarding their president and his administration played a role... So it's not just following set rules. Maybe you tweeted Trump is a jerk once and they checked your twitter? Or maybe not. If they won't tell you how can you know?
pjc50 2y ago
> it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. The cruelty is the point. The real story is that Europeans and Canadians have been downgraded from "white country" immigration treatment to the "barely human scum" treatment previously reserved for the southern border. Note that that was bipartisan, as well. > Unfortunately I need to travel to the US soon for a company (on?)off-site Double-check the rules for working under an ESTA.
- black_13 2y ago
  [dead]
- jleyank 2y ago
  > Double-check the rules for working under an ESTA. This cannot be emphasized too strongly. Never give a border guard the idea that you’re going to do something your paperwork doesn’t permit. Don’t hint that money might be earned unless you have a work permit. Don’t let anything expire, and be very careful when traveling with renew soon documents. Err on the side of caution with all interactions. All of these issues are not new and not us-specific. And check how the laws of the country you’re trying to enter differ from your own. For example, a drunk driving conviction is quite serious in Canada but I don’t think the US cares?
  - idkfasayer 2y ago
    [dead]
- Yeul 2y ago
  Yeah this was my thought as well. Here in the Netherlands we don't treat all foreigners equal, nobody is going to treat a Japanese tourist the same as a refugee from Mali. It would be utterly insane. What the hell is going on in America?!
- rsynnott 2y ago
  ESTAs (at least those given to EU persons; I'm not sure if there are other variants) allow for business travel, that is, essentially, meetings. So _should_ be fine for onsites, you'd think, though who knows with the current lunatic in charge, rules mean nothing anymore, etc.
jajko 2y ago
> It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. Not if you run a for-profit private prison and get paid for nr of inmates X time of stay, then you want them to stay as long as possible and then some more, who is gonna complain anyway. Some subhumans with no rights? US is properly fucked up in this regard for a very long time, private prisons owners were actively campaigning against decriminalization of marihuana for a long time to not lose revenue. The fact that part of their revenue is ruining people's lives en masse and for good (good luck getting any normal job in US with prison conviction, for ie having 2 joints on you in bible belt states) is just an insignificant detail.
piva00 2y ago
> It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. It's absolutely cheaper but GEO Group and CoreCivic make more money by imprisoning people for longer, so longer they stay in their private prisons. It's a grift, upending people's lives to make a buck, the American way...
mnky9800n 2y ago
I thought one of the motivations is that its all privatize. so anyone getting detained is money in the pocket for the company doing the detaining once some official indicates a person may need to be detained.
monkeyfun 2y ago
Well, cheaper for whom? Many of the "detention centers" are run by private companies for-profit. And many of the border agents aren't concerned with cost, but "doing their job" or political agendas.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
The US pays private prisons per prison, not per prisoner. So it looks bad if XYZ agency is paying for a prison with empty beds. The incentive/political optics is to fill those beds. Something resource utilization rates something something. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Detention_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Detention_Center "In October 2015, the GEO Group renewed a ten-year contract with ICE.[11] The contract pays GEO for almost 1,200 beds daily, regardless if they are used."

by doix 2y ago

kpmcc 2y ago

It certainly would be cheaper, but then how would the people running the arbitrary detention centers get paid?

TomK32 2y ago

We've seen a musician being detained and deported for reasons the immigration officer wouldn't share. https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-usa/ https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-us... Is the company you have to travel for affected by the tariffs or retaliatory tariffs, or is a company with the same or very similar name in such a position?

tim333 2y ago
One of the scariest aspects is them refusing to tell you what you did wrong. From that link >...there was another unspecified issue that they refused to disclose. I can’t help but wonder whether my frequent, and less than flattering, public comments regarding their president and his administration played a role... So it's not just following set rules. Maybe you tweeted Trump is a jerk once and they checked your twitter? Or maybe not. If they won't tell you how can you know?

pjc50 2y ago

> it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. The cruelty is the point. The real story is that Europeans and Canadians have been downgraded from "white country" immigration treatment to the "barely human scum" treatment previously reserved for the southern border. Note that that was bipartisan, as well. > Unfortunately I need to travel to the US soon for a company (on?)off-site Double-check the rules for working under an ESTA.

black_13 2y ago
[dead]
jleyank 2y ago
> Double-check the rules for working under an ESTA. This cannot be emphasized too strongly. Never give a border guard the idea that you’re going to do something your paperwork doesn’t permit. Don’t hint that money might be earned unless you have a work permit. Don’t let anything expire, and be very careful when traveling with renew soon documents. Err on the side of caution with all interactions. All of these issues are not new and not us-specific. And check how the laws of the country you’re trying to enter differ from your own. For example, a drunk driving conviction is quite serious in Canada but I don’t think the US cares?
- idkfasayer 2y ago
  [dead]
Yeul 2y ago
Yeah this was my thought as well. Here in the Netherlands we don't treat all foreigners equal, nobody is going to treat a Japanese tourist the same as a refugee from Mali. It would be utterly insane. What the hell is going on in America?!
rsynnott 2y ago
ESTAs (at least those given to EU persons; I'm not sure if there are other variants) allow for business travel, that is, essentially, meetings. So _should_ be fine for onsites, you'd think, though who knows with the current lunatic in charge, rules mean nothing anymore, etc.

jajko 2y ago

> It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. Not if you run a for-profit private prison and get paid for nr of inmates X time of stay, then you want them to stay as long as possible and then some more, who is gonna complain anyway. Some subhumans with no rights? US is properly fucked up in this regard for a very long time, private prisons owners were actively campaigning against decriminalization of marihuana for a long time to not lose revenue. The fact that part of their revenue is ruining people's lives en masse and for good (good luck getting any normal job in US with prison conviction, for ie having 2 joints on you in bible belt states) is just an insignificant detail.

piva00 2y ago

> It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. It's absolutely cheaper but GEO Group and CoreCivic make more money by imprisoning people for longer, so longer they stay in their private prisons. It's a grift, upending people's lives to make a buck, the American way...

mnky9800n 2y ago

I thought one of the motivations is that its all privatize. so anyone getting detained is money in the pocket for the company doing the detaining once some official indicates a person may need to be detained.

monkeyfun 2y ago

Well, cheaper for whom? Many of the "detention centers" are run by private companies for-profit. And many of the border agents aren't concerned with cost, but "doing their job" or political agendas.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

The US pays private prisons per prison, not per prisoner. So it looks bad if XYZ agency is paying for a prison with empty beds. The incentive/political optics is to fill those beds. Something resource utilization rates something something. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Detention_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Detention_Center "In October 2015, the GEO Group renewed a ten-year contract with ICE.[11] The contract pays GEO for almost 1,200 beds daily, regardless if they are used."