6 ms·

For the average European there was never a risk of getting detained for weeks in a prison facility where the lights are never off and your only comfort is an al

For the average European there was never a risk of getting detained for weeks in a prison facility where the lights are never off and your only comfort is an aluminium foil blanket. It's not just rhetoric. I agree that the risk isn't particularly high, but it did seem to have gone from 'negligible' to 'possible'.

doix 2y ago
Yeah, I would have expected to get my ESTA denied, or denied entry at the border and shipped back. It would have never occured to me that I would be arrested for weeks. It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. Unfortunately I need to travel to the US soon for a company (on?)off-site, and the thought is in the back of my mind. Getting off the plane and getting sent back would be annoying but whatever. Getting detained would be a nightmare.
- kpmcc 2y ago
  It certainly would be cheaper, but then how would the people running the arbitrary detention centers get paid?
- TomK32 2y ago
  We've seen a musician being detained and deported for reasons the immigration officer wouldn't share. https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-usa/ https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-us... Is the company you have to travel for affected by the tariffs or retaliatory tariffs, or is a company with the same or very similar name in such a position?
  - tim333 2y ago
    One of the scariest aspects is them refusing to tell you what you did wrong. From that link >...there was another unspecified issue that they refused to disclose. I can’t help but wonder whether my frequent, and less than flattering, public comments regarding their president and his administration played a role... So it's not just following set rules. Maybe you tweeted Trump is a jerk once and they checked your twitter? Or maybe not. If they won't tell you how can you know?
- pjc50 2y ago
  > it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. The cruelty is the point. The real story is that Europeans and Canadians have been downgraded from "white country" immigration treatment to the "barely human scum" treatment previously reserved for the southern border. Note that that was bipartisan, as well. > Unfortunately I need to travel to the US soon for a company (on?)off-site Double-check the rules for working under an ESTA.
  - black_13 2y ago
    [dead]
  - jleyank 2y ago
    > Double-check the rules for working under an ESTA. This cannot be emphasized too strongly. Never give a border guard the idea that you’re going to do something your paperwork doesn’t permit. Don’t hint that money might be earned unless you have a work permit. Don’t let anything expire, and be very careful when traveling with renew soon documents. Err on the side of caution with all interactions. All of these issues are not new and not us-specific. And check how the laws of the country you’re trying to enter differ from your own. For example, a drunk driving conviction is quite serious in Canada but I don’t think the US cares?
    - idkfasayer 2y ago
      [dead]
  - Yeul 2y ago
    Yeah this was my thought as well. Here in the Netherlands we don't treat all foreigners equal, nobody is going to treat a Japanese tourist the same as a refugee from Mali. It would be utterly insane. What the hell is going on in America?!
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    ESTAs (at least those given to EU persons; I'm not sure if there are other variants) allow for business travel, that is, essentially, meetings. So _should_ be fine for onsites, you'd think, though who knows with the current lunatic in charge, rules mean nothing anymore, etc.
- jajko 2y ago
  > It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. Not if you run a for-profit private prison and get paid for nr of inmates X time of stay, then you want them to stay as long as possible and then some more, who is gonna complain anyway. Some subhumans with no rights? US is properly fucked up in this regard for a very long time, private prisons owners were actively campaigning against decriminalization of marihuana for a long time to not lose revenue. The fact that part of their revenue is ruining people's lives en masse and for good (good luck getting any normal job in US with prison conviction, for ie having 2 joints on you in bible belt states) is just an insignificant detail.
- piva00 2y ago
  > It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. It's absolutely cheaper but GEO Group and CoreCivic make more money by imprisoning people for longer, so longer they stay in their private prisons. It's a grift, upending people's lives to make a buck, the American way...
- mnky9800n 2y ago
  I thought one of the motivations is that its all privatize. so anyone getting detained is money in the pocket for the company doing the detaining once some official indicates a person may need to be detained.
- monkeyfun 2y ago
  Well, cheaper for whom? Many of the "detention centers" are run by private companies for-profit. And many of the border agents aren't concerned with cost, but "doing their job" or political agendas.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  The US pays private prisons per prison, not per prisoner. So it looks bad if XYZ agency is paying for a prison with empty beds. The incentive/political optics is to fill those beds. Something resource utilization rates something something. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Detention_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Detention_Center "In October 2015, the GEO Group renewed a ten-year contract with ICE.[11] The contract pays GEO for almost 1,200 beds daily, regardless if they are used."
josefx 2y ago
Are we still pretending that Guantanamo Bay never existed or that the US didn't randomly accuse people all over the world of terrorism and imprison them without a shred of evidence?
- Sammi 2y ago
  Those generally affected Muslims, so Europeans generally didn't have incentive to care. When you wonder why people behave in a certain way, then thinking deeper about what their incentives are will often give the answer. Incentives, incentives, incentives.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
atoav 2y ago
Qoute from one of the cases that triggered the warning: > Senior described Schmidt being “violently interrogated” at Logan Airport for hours, and being stripped naked, put in a cold shower by two officials, and being put back onto a chair. Source: https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2025-03-14/green-card-holder-from-new-hampshire-interrogated-at-logan-airport-detained https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2025-03-14/green-card-holder-fr...
deadlydose 2y ago
> For the average European Depends how old you are, I guess: - The Palmer Raids (1919-20) - WW2 internment and deportation (1942-45) - McCarthy era (all of the 50s) - Present day Each one seems to have deported random people. Many of whom did nothing wrong. And honorable mention: - Fallout from the Iranian hostage crisis (1979-81) That last one didn't involve Europeans, per se, but it did deport a lot of innocent people. And for a bonus, here's the ~30yr pattern of anti-immigration: - Immigration Act of 1924 - Operation Wetback of 1954 - Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 - Present day These things have _always_ happened here. And some of them even follow a pattern. Edit: Sorry for the formatting.
hulitu 2y ago
> For the average European there was never a risk of getting detained for weeks in a prison facility where the lights are never off and your only comfort is an aluminium foil blanket. Maybe I'm too old, but i clearly remember that, some years ago, US did a lot of phone searches at its border and rejected or detained people based on what they found in the social media profile of the victim.
swat535 2y ago
I don’t think many white people truly understand what it’s like to be a minority trying to travel to the United States. As a personal anecdote, my family and I have been naturalized Canadian citizens for over a decade. We travel frequently on our Canadian passports and rarely encounter issues visiting the EU or UK is usually smooth and pleasant. But the U.S.? That’s a very different story. Every time we try to cross the border, we’re pulled aside for additional questioning. Our belongings are thoroughly searched, and the process often takes hours, causing us to miss flights or arrive late. Why? Because the country of birth listed on our passports is an Islamic country. None of us have returned there in years. I don’t even follow Islam, I’m a Christian. And yet, U.S. officers repeatedly question me about my intentions, sometimes quoting verses from the Quran, as if I’m part of a terrorist organization. Then they seemingly get offended when I reply with "I don't know which year Mohammad was born, I'm not a Muslim." The experience is deeply dehumanizing. From the holding area, we watch white travelers breeze through with a smile and a passport flash, while we’re treated with suspicion and delay. For the longest time, no one seemed to care about this kind of treatment until it started affecting Europeans. Suddenly, it’s headline news. Sadly, issues like these often go ignored until they impact white Westerners or their government decides they matter. As an example, look at Gaza, which has been suffering for decades with barely a whisper until the West turned its attention briefly. All that said, I’m genuinely glad this conversation is finally happening. And despite everything, I have nothing but love for the American people. They’re incredibly kind, and the U.S. is home to some of the most breathtaking nature I’ve ever seen. Which is why, despite the above, I am always eager to travel there.
- wendyshu 2y ago
  I know, it's so bizarre. It's like the US suffered a major terrorist attack by people from Islamic countries or something.
  - computerthings 2y ago
    [dead]
  - Freedom2 2y ago
    So did France, yet they are not as overzealous?
flohofwoe 2y ago
Not for weeks, but I was 'detained' for 24 hrs and then escorted in handcuffs to a plane back to Germany about 20 years ago (2002 or 2003 IIRC) for a 2 week overstay in 1998 (and since then I've been kicked out of the visa waiver program and on each followup visit interrogated in a backroom each time I wanted to enter the US for visiting GDC or E3 (basically 2hrs waiting time for 5 minutes of pointless questions and staring at my visa and passport) - I've since given up trying to travel to the US, it's just too much hassle.

doix 2y ago

Yeah, I would have expected to get my ESTA denied, or denied entry at the border and shipped back. It would have never occured to me that I would be arrested for weeks. It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. Unfortunately I need to travel to the US soon for a company (on?)off-site, and the thought is in the back of my mind. Getting off the plane and getting sent back would be annoying but whatever. Getting detained would be a nightmare.

kpmcc 2y ago
It certainly would be cheaper, but then how would the people running the arbitrary detention centers get paid?
TomK32 2y ago
We've seen a musician being detained and deported for reasons the immigration officer wouldn't share. https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-usa/ https://dorseteye.com/im-so-proud-to-be-deported-from-the-us... Is the company you have to travel for affected by the tariffs or retaliatory tariffs, or is a company with the same or very similar name in such a position?
- tim333 2y ago
  One of the scariest aspects is them refusing to tell you what you did wrong. From that link >...there was another unspecified issue that they refused to disclose. I can’t help but wonder whether my frequent, and less than flattering, public comments regarding their president and his administration played a role... So it's not just following set rules. Maybe you tweeted Trump is a jerk once and they checked your twitter? Or maybe not. If they won't tell you how can you know?
pjc50 2y ago
> it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. The cruelty is the point. The real story is that Europeans and Canadians have been downgraded from "white country" immigration treatment to the "barely human scum" treatment previously reserved for the southern border. Note that that was bipartisan, as well. > Unfortunately I need to travel to the US soon for a company (on?)off-site Double-check the rules for working under an ESTA.
- black_13 2y ago
  [dead]
- jleyank 2y ago
  > Double-check the rules for working under an ESTA. This cannot be emphasized too strongly. Never give a border guard the idea that you’re going to do something your paperwork doesn’t permit. Don’t hint that money might be earned unless you have a work permit. Don’t let anything expire, and be very careful when traveling with renew soon documents. Err on the side of caution with all interactions. All of these issues are not new and not us-specific. And check how the laws of the country you’re trying to enter differ from your own. For example, a drunk driving conviction is quite serious in Canada but I don’t think the US cares?
  - idkfasayer 2y ago
    [dead]
- Yeul 2y ago
  Yeah this was my thought as well. Here in the Netherlands we don't treat all foreigners equal, nobody is going to treat a Japanese tourist the same as a refugee from Mali. It would be utterly insane. What the hell is going on in America?!
- rsynnott 2y ago
  ESTAs (at least those given to EU persons; I'm not sure if there are other variants) allow for business travel, that is, essentially, meetings. So _should_ be fine for onsites, you'd think, though who knows with the current lunatic in charge, rules mean nothing anymore, etc.
jajko 2y ago
> It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. Not if you run a for-profit private prison and get paid for nr of inmates X time of stay, then you want them to stay as long as possible and then some more, who is gonna complain anyway. Some subhumans with no rights? US is properly fucked up in this regard for a very long time, private prisons owners were actively campaigning against decriminalization of marihuana for a long time to not lose revenue. The fact that part of their revenue is ruining people's lives en masse and for good (good luck getting any normal job in US with prison conviction, for ie having 2 joints on you in bible belt states) is just an insignificant detail.
piva00 2y ago
> It's insane to me, it can't make economical sense, it must be cheaper to just deny entry than arresting people. It's absolutely cheaper but GEO Group and CoreCivic make more money by imprisoning people for longer, so longer they stay in their private prisons. It's a grift, upending people's lives to make a buck, the American way...
mnky9800n 2y ago
I thought one of the motivations is that its all privatize. so anyone getting detained is money in the pocket for the company doing the detaining once some official indicates a person may need to be detained.
monkeyfun 2y ago
Well, cheaper for whom? Many of the "detention centers" are run by private companies for-profit. And many of the border agents aren't concerned with cost, but "doing their job" or political agendas.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
The US pays private prisons per prison, not per prisoner. So it looks bad if XYZ agency is paying for a prison with empty beds. The incentive/political optics is to fill those beds. Something resource utilization rates something something. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Detention_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Detention_Center "In October 2015, the GEO Group renewed a ten-year contract with ICE.[11] The contract pays GEO for almost 1,200 beds daily, regardless if they are used."

josefx 2y ago

Are we still pretending that Guantanamo Bay never existed or that the US didn't randomly accuse people all over the world of terrorism and imprison them without a shred of evidence?

Sammi 2y ago
Those generally affected Muslims, so Europeans generally didn't have incentive to care. When you wonder why people behave in a certain way, then thinking deeper about what their incentives are will often give the answer. Incentives, incentives, incentives.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

atoav 2y ago

Qoute from one of the cases that triggered the warning: > Senior described Schmidt being “violently interrogated” at Logan Airport for hours, and being stripped naked, put in a cold shower by two officials, and being put back onto a chair. Source: https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2025-03-14/green-card-holder-from-new-hampshire-interrogated-at-logan-airport-detained https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2025-03-14/green-card-holder-fr...

deadlydose 2y ago

> For the average European Depends how old you are, I guess: - The Palmer Raids (1919-20) - WW2 internment and deportation (1942-45) - McCarthy era (all of the 50s) - Present day Each one seems to have deported random people. Many of whom did nothing wrong. And honorable mention: - Fallout from the Iranian hostage crisis (1979-81) That last one didn't involve Europeans, per se, but it did deport a lot of innocent people. And for a bonus, here's the ~30yr pattern of anti-immigration: - Immigration Act of 1924 - Operation Wetback of 1954 - Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 - Present day These things have _always_ happened here. And some of them even follow a pattern. Edit: Sorry for the formatting.

hulitu 2y ago

> For the average European there was never a risk of getting detained for weeks in a prison facility where the lights are never off and your only comfort is an aluminium foil blanket. Maybe I'm too old, but i clearly remember that, some years ago, US did a lot of phone searches at its border and rejected or detained people based on what they found in the social media profile of the victim.

swat535 2y ago

I don’t think many white people truly understand what it’s like to be a minority trying to travel to the United States. As a personal anecdote, my family and I have been naturalized Canadian citizens for over a decade. We travel frequently on our Canadian passports and rarely encounter issues visiting the EU or UK is usually smooth and pleasant. But the U.S.? That’s a very different story. Every time we try to cross the border, we’re pulled aside for additional questioning. Our belongings are thoroughly searched, and the process often takes hours, causing us to miss flights or arrive late. Why? Because the country of birth listed on our passports is an Islamic country. None of us have returned there in years. I don’t even follow Islam, I’m a Christian. And yet, U.S. officers repeatedly question me about my intentions, sometimes quoting verses from the Quran, as if I’m part of a terrorist organization. Then they seemingly get offended when I reply with "I don't know which year Mohammad was born, I'm not a Muslim." The experience is deeply dehumanizing. From the holding area, we watch white travelers breeze through with a smile and a passport flash, while we’re treated with suspicion and delay. For the longest time, no one seemed to care about this kind of treatment until it started affecting Europeans. Suddenly, it’s headline news. Sadly, issues like these often go ignored until they impact white Westerners or their government decides they matter. As an example, look at Gaza, which has been suffering for decades with barely a whisper until the West turned its attention briefly. All that said, I’m genuinely glad this conversation is finally happening. And despite everything, I have nothing but love for the American people. They’re incredibly kind, and the U.S. is home to some of the most breathtaking nature I’ve ever seen. Which is why, despite the above, I am always eager to travel there.

wendyshu 2y ago
I know, it's so bizarre. It's like the US suffered a major terrorist attack by people from Islamic countries or something.
- computerthings 2y ago
  [dead]
- Freedom2 2y ago
  So did France, yet they are not as overzealous?

flohofwoe 2y ago

Not for weeks, but I was 'detained' for 24 hrs and then escorted in handcuffs to a plane back to Germany about 20 years ago (2002 or 2003 IIRC) for a 2 week overstay in 1998 (and since then I've been kicked out of the visa waiver program and on each followup visit interrogated in a backroom each time I wanted to enter the US for visiting GDC or E3 (basically 2hrs waiting time for 5 minutes of pointless questions and staring at my visa and passport) - I've since given up trying to travel to the US, it's just too much hassle.