4 ms·

> Most HN commentators on China always devolve into the same argument about how China's government subsidizes EVs and stolen IP. Meanwhile, every advantage Chin

by bsder 2y ago

> Most HN commentators on China always devolve into the same argument about how China's government subsidizes EVs and stolen IP. Meanwhile, every advantage China has in engineering prowess, supply chain management, decades planning ahead, and ruthless competition are completely ignored. Those statements are not exclusive--they can all be true. At the same time, because HN IS better engaged with sort of thing, they can ALSO plainly see with their own two eyes when "The Party" yanks the chain on a Jack Ma or Naomi Wu. They are fully aware of incidents like Huawei stealing Cisco software to the point of duplicating bugs. They have worked with some brilliant Chinese engineers--but they have also seen how much many of those engineers wanted to get out from under that system. etc. etc. I can have conflicted feelings that I would dearly love to see BYD completely splatter the arrogant, complacent, ossified US carmakers while not being happy that the result would irretrievably destroy large chunks of US industrial production and engineering and benefit a governmental regime that I very much distrust. HN has its faults, but they are likely to be some of the best educated about China--both the good and bad points--from personal experience.

aurareturn 2y ago
Which is why I advocate that HN people go to Shenzen. If they truly think that China copies/steals their most important tech, they'll be in for a shock because China is ahead in many industries. China can't copy and lead at the same time.
- yorwba 2y ago
  On the contrary, you cannot lead without copying advances others make in their quest to catch up with you, or you'll be stuck having to rediscover everything yourself. Of course you cannot lead without any advances of your own either, but successfully copying what's known to work is already half the battle.
  - aurareturn 2y ago
    I didn't say China didn't steal/copy. The US sent spies to Great Britain to try to steal their cotton machine designs during the industrial revolution. Europe copied China's paper making, book printing, gun powder, noodles, compass. Such is the cycle of civilization. Once advanced enough, China will have its own problem of other nations stealing their tech.
    - yorwba 2y ago
      You said "China can't copy and lead at the same time." I'm saying leaders always have to be copying, or they don't stay leaders for long. Market leaders won't hesitate to copy (not "steal") the work of overall less advanced companies if they can benefit from it somehow.
suraci 2y ago
> but they are likely to be some of the best educated about China the best educated about China? Not at all the best educated about China by MSM? Yes
- bsder 2y ago
  Your response gives no refutation or engagement with substantive claims. As I pointed out, HN are among some of the most likely people in the US to have direct personal experience with Chinese nationals. In addition, those same readers are also far more prone to engage with alternative media than the average US citizen. On top of that, they are also likely engaging the best of Chinese nationals as they both have the motivation and intelligence to learn English and operate outside of the country. If the reality of interacting with these people contradicts Chinese propaganda like this article, well, that is its own message.
  - suraci 2y ago
    sorry for any possible offence of my following words, because my english is so poor that i may not able to pick more polite and euphemistic words You are too arrogant. Your ignorance limits your understanding of yourself, and I have no way to help you realize that. If there were any way, as others mentioned before, it would be to come to China and talk with the locals > If the reality of interacting with these people contradicts Chinese propaganda like this article here's the problem, you and most of others live in the bubble, in that bubble, information is filtered and selected that article, is originally a Chinese article for Chinese audience, it was not writen for americans like you at the first time, there're tons of articles in China, written by chinese reasearchers, with various opinions, it just one of the few were translated by the site and submited here by me you refuse to read or understand it before you label it as 'propaganda' and, not suprisely, it was flagged, for reason of being ccp propaganda i guess for information you are willing to accept, it is the reality of interacting, for any information you dont like(or dont fit the current narratives), you call it china propaganda whatever you see yourself, but the reality is, most hn users know 0 truth abt China, all information you got is from MSM, (or alternative media, they say same narratives in most time) > HN are among some of the most likely people in the US to have direct personal experience with Chinese nationals a simple persperctive, i'm the one with Chinese national literally does the direct personal experience with me educate you anything? or your first idea is 'yet another ccp agent' > the best of Chinese nationals as they both have the motivation and intelligence to learn English and operate outside of the country. sign… you can't realize it at all, can you?

by bsder 2y ago

aurareturn 2y ago

Which is why I advocate that HN people go to Shenzen. If they truly think that China copies/steals their most important tech, they'll be in for a shock because China is ahead in many industries. China can't copy and lead at the same time.

yorwba 2y ago
On the contrary, you cannot lead without copying advances others make in their quest to catch up with you, or you'll be stuck having to rediscover everything yourself. Of course you cannot lead without any advances of your own either, but successfully copying what's known to work is already half the battle.
- aurareturn 2y ago
  I didn't say China didn't steal/copy. The US sent spies to Great Britain to try to steal their cotton machine designs during the industrial revolution. Europe copied China's paper making, book printing, gun powder, noodles, compass. Such is the cycle of civilization. Once advanced enough, China will have its own problem of other nations stealing their tech.
  - yorwba 2y ago
    You said "China can't copy and lead at the same time." I'm saying leaders always have to be copying, or they don't stay leaders for long. Market leaders won't hesitate to copy (not "steal") the work of overall less advanced companies if they can benefit from it somehow.

suraci 2y ago

> but they are likely to be some of the best educated about China the best educated about China? Not at all the best educated about China by MSM? Yes

bsder 2y ago
Your response gives no refutation or engagement with substantive claims. As I pointed out, HN are among some of the most likely people in the US to have direct personal experience with Chinese nationals. In addition, those same readers are also far more prone to engage with alternative media than the average US citizen. On top of that, they are also likely engaging the best of Chinese nationals as they both have the motivation and intelligence to learn English and operate outside of the country. If the reality of interacting with these people contradicts Chinese propaganda like this article, well, that is its own message.
- suraci 2y ago
  sorry for any possible offence of my following words, because my english is so poor that i may not able to pick more polite and euphemistic words You are too arrogant. Your ignorance limits your understanding of yourself, and I have no way to help you realize that. If there were any way, as others mentioned before, it would be to come to China and talk with the locals > If the reality of interacting with these people contradicts Chinese propaganda like this article here's the problem, you and most of others live in the bubble, in that bubble, information is filtered and selected that article, is originally a Chinese article for Chinese audience, it was not writen for americans like you at the first time, there're tons of articles in China, written by chinese reasearchers, with various opinions, it just one of the few were translated by the site and submited here by me you refuse to read or understand it before you label it as 'propaganda' and, not suprisely, it was flagged, for reason of being ccp propaganda i guess for information you are willing to accept, it is the reality of interacting, for any information you dont like(or dont fit the current narratives), you call it china propaganda whatever you see yourself, but the reality is, most hn users know 0 truth abt China, all information you got is from MSM, (or alternative media, they say same narratives in most time) > HN are among some of the most likely people in the US to have direct personal experience with Chinese nationals a simple persperctive, i'm the one with Chinese national literally does the direct personal experience with me educate you anything? or your first idea is 'yet another ccp agent' > the best of Chinese nationals as they both have the motivation and intelligence to learn English and operate outside of the country. sign… you can't realize it at all, can you?