5 ms·

iPhones were being stolen off porches right after delivery, and now we know how

75 points by TMWNN 2y ago

Philadelphia 2y ago
Requiring a signature, as the article suggests, doesn’t help. The delivery people just ignore it. My iPhone was left outside despite requiring a signature. I changed my schedule to be home when it was delivered. They didn’t even knock on the door before they left it.
- cosmic_cheese 2y ago
  Similarly living in an apartment complex with a package locker doesn’t necessarily help. At both of the places I lived with one of those, deliveries were routinely dumped on the floor in front of the lockers, and so you’d have to watch delivery status like a hawk, hope you noticed that it was delivered quickly enough, and then awkwardly dig through a bunch of other peoples’ deliveries to retrieve yours. Had a couple of packages disappear that way.
  - hombre_fatal 2y ago
    Man, the worst is "overnight shipping" on Amazon. It's a huge nerf over normal shipping, but they push it like it's some sort of perk. Unless you live in a detached home, "overnight shipping" just means someone's going to call you at 5:30am asking how to enter your apartment and then try again in two days when you don't pick up. One time I did this dance for a week because they kept coming at 4am, and I feel bad for them too, but c'mon "4am-8am" delivery, and they don't have Amazon Locker access? I wish I could disable it permanently.
- f33d5173 2y ago
  I bought a ~$500 item from amazon the other day. They sent me a code to give to the driver to recieve the package. They told me not to give it over the phone/intercom, and to only give it in person. He tapped it into his phone before giving me the package. I suppose he needed to do so to mark the package as delivered. That seemed a reliable enough system.
  - mbreese 2y ago
    Seems like a good system, but it will only work if Amazon is the one doing the final delivery… In cases like this where it is third party (in this case FedEx), there’s no way to manage that.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    How long are they required to wait? They're going to start marking it as undeliverable without knocking just to get done with the route faster. Technical solutions always fail to solve social trust problems.
    - stevage 2y ago
      That definitely happens here in Aus, but I'd still prefer that over a brand new phone left on the verandah.
    - b0bb1z3r0 2y ago
      [dead]
- Seattle3503 2y ago
  I feel grateful I live in a large condo with concierge service that always receives my packages. I've never had a package stolen since moving in.
- orthoxerox 2y ago
  > The delivery people just ignore it. When the compensation for stolen items starts being taken out of their pay, they will stop ignoring it.
  - Nextgrid 2y ago
    Part of the reason they don't do that is because they're already paying the lowest the market will bear (and being able to steal items might very well be priced in by said market).
- tchalla 2y ago
  In some countries, delivery items require a 2FA code. I still don’t think it solves the problem as delivery drivers are stressed and this would lead to dropping stuff at alternatives like a post office or something. There’s no full solution until delivery drivers are paid a fair minimum amount.
- pimlottc 2y ago
  I had a brand new laptop disappear this way. The delivery log shows a failed delivery attempt, followed by a “signed delivery” in my name 5 minutes later. Meanwhile I wasn’t even in the same state. Never did find out what happened to it, fortunately the seller was willing to send a replacement to make it right.
ronnier 2y ago
> The group created software to scrape FedEx tracking numbers and bribed AT&T store employees to get order details and delivery addresses, according to a criminal complaint filed in New Jersey. The group then sent thieves to pick off the packages and bring them back to destinations like the Brooklyn shop > employee also received bonuses of $2,000-2,500 for recruiting other AT&T employees into the scheme.
0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
It is a good scam, but you have to assume you have a limited window before getting caught. Too many accomplices - eventually someone will be caught and rat out the rest of the crew. What other high value items are shipped regularly? I thought Costco started selling gold recently, which seems way more lucrative and harder to trace than phones.
- death916 2y ago
  That's a good point. I think most people go into Costco to get the gold though. I'd need some good shipping insurance on a $3000+ purchase
- sparrish 2y ago
  The gold costco sells is serialized. It is traceable and if you report it stolen, if it's found in a pawn shop or the pocket of a thief, you will get it back.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
    Couldn’t you kiss it with a propane torch to melt away the identifiers? Shred it? Some mechanism of making it non traceable.
cton 2y ago
Whatever the solution is here, it must not, under any circumstance, involve an analysis of why people are so willing to steal from one another. All that matters is me getting my iPhone.
- renewiltord 2y ago
  Are you saying there is some hidden reason why people are doing this? The straightforward reason is that this is a valuable fungible good that you can easily fence. This kind of thing has always been a target for the criminal element. Watches before this. Chains. We don’t need another social science thesis over this. Just like the blonde millionaire in San Diego who organized a crime ring in California, there are people who know how to run other criminal organizations.
  - _Algernon_ 2y ago
    Yet somehow - just like school shootings - this appears to be a much worse problem in the US compared to many other countries.
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      Its only a problem in certain parts of the US. There are some towns where people don't lock their car doors.
    - echoangle 2y ago
      Why do you think that?
    - TMWNN 2y ago
      Other people are saying that it's the norm in some other countries for couriers to require a OTP at delivery, something that is very rare in the US. Doesn't that imply that those places have package thievery problems far worse than in the US?
SoftTalker 2y ago
Are deliveries of new iPhones not insured? If they are, I'd think it's the insurance company's problem. I suppose they will claim they have a photo of the package on your doorstep but if a porch pirate gets to it first do they not cover that?
- eru 2y ago
  Insurance companies don't really turn your problems into their problems. It's easier to think of them turning _risks_ of occasional large losses into a steady constant flow of losses. Whatever level of verification you pick, an insurance company can give you a quote. If you want to implement a very lax policy (without even a photo of the package on the doorstep), the insurance company will charge you an arm and a leg for coverage. If you pick a more robust system, the insurance will become cheaper.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    OK, but if the delivery is covered, with a "photo on the doorstep" level of proof, and the recipient claims they did not receive it, do they (insurance) pay for the loss or is it going to be an argument?
    - eru 2y ago
      That depends on the policy. But you are right that my analysis only really applies for repeat players. So if you have two insurance providers with the same written down policies, but one provider A usually pays out, and the other B fights it tooth and nail, then provider A has an easier time selling their services for a higher price. Reputation matters. Thus in the end (assuming some competition) the actual policies as implemented matter more than what's written down.
Snoozus 2y ago
It would be trivial to keep track the IMEI of the phones and to render them worthless by blacklisting them on the mobile networks. Why is this not done? Same applies to any stolen phones btw.
- chneu 2y ago
  Carriers have this ability. They'll do it under certain circumstances. This isn't really one of them. It's extra work for the carrier and can result in innocent people being denied service so they lean towards not banning IMEIs. Also it can be spoofed so it isn't a surefire way to ban these devices.
- noja 2y ago
  It would be even more trivial for Apple to block the phones the same way they do when an Apple Store is broken into. You can’t use an iPhone without an activation via login.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  They used to get broken down for parts, as the screens etc were still worth hundreds on their own. But since the parts are now encoded, that can't be done as easily.
jjani 2y ago
> Overall, it was a complex, multi-faceted crime ring. Looks like a not-so complex, multi-faceted LLM was used to help write this article :)
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  this will soon be most news articles outside of a couple of places, like AP or Reuters
OptionOfT 2y ago
When you buy something online in the USA, the responsibility of the shipper ends once they hand it to the shipping company. At that moment it is your (the customer's) responsibility. Which is weird, as you, the customer, don't have any leverage in enforcing any behavior of the shipping company (like make sure package is signed for). You can't even select them. Apple for example charges you $9 for expedited shipping, which is essentially Uber delivery. But when the delivery person takes off with your $1,200 phone they don't have to replace it. It is on you: https://law.stackexchange.com/a/73842 https://law.stackexchange.com/a/73842 When this whole thing is flipped around, where the sender is responsible until the buyer actually has it in their hands the whole system all of the sudden becomes incentivized to minimize losses. (sidenote: it is a disgrace that Stackoverflow doesn't allow you to turn off auto-sharing of your ID when you share a link).
- darreninthenet 2y ago
  And this is the situation in the UK - until it is in the hands of the buyer, the seller is wholly responsible for the item and delivering it to you. Consequently, you only ever really see this kind of blase delivery from Amazon, who I guess are rich enough to absorb the cost.
  - switch007 2y ago
    > Consequently, you only ever really see this kind of blase delivery from Amazon Sweet innocent child, so lucky never to have suffered (edit: the low cost UK courier) Hermes. Their definition of delivered to you regularly includes left in a bush 3 streets over at a random address Your first paragraph is totally correct and I wish more people stopped wasting so much energy chasing couriers when it's not their job. However, there is a certain reality when people expect free or <£3 delivery costs
    - joachimma 2y ago
      For a while I thought you meant Hermes the luxury brand tossed your stuff in the bushes. Apparently there is a delivery company under the same name.
itpcc 2y ago
Looks like tracking number scraping is so much of an issue now isn't it? (Although, in this case, this incident is also include bribing an employee too.) Quite the same story with the GPU delivery scam covered by LTT recently. [0] In my country, at least, some provider is now requiring related party's phone number to be included in order to access the tracking data. [1] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NpOw1Onf2I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NpOw1Onf2I [1] https://th.kex-express.com/th/track/ https://th.kex-express.com/th/track/
kelnos 2y ago
> Require a signature for all of your valuable deliveries, including and especially iPhones. I'm not sure if this is universal, or region-specific, but out of all the times that I've received something that's been signature-required, it's incredibly rare (single-digit percent) that the driver will actually get my signature. Usually when I see the "SIGNED BY XYZ" note on the delivery notification, it's some random name. 90+% of the time they don't even check my ID when it's a wine delivery, like they're supposed to. Drivers are overworked and have too many deliveries on their plate. They're not going to bother to get signatures.
- wodenokoto 2y ago
  And even when you are asked to sign, it usually goes like this: "Sign here" "What is it? Who is the recipient?" "Just sign" Like, you don't know what you've signed for until after signing for it.
  - stevage 2y ago
    Still, handing the package to a person that was inside the house is much better odds than leaving it outside.
  - bitshiftfaced 2y ago
    Reminds me of places that tell you something by speaking to you, and then they want you to sign a digital pad. What does that prove? All you have is a digital signature that will presumably be placed next to some digital text.
- joshstrange 2y ago
  > Drivers are overworked and have too many deliveries on their plate. They're not going to bother to get signatures. Yeah, I don’t hold this against them at all. My USPS delivery driver asked me the other day if he could just leave packages requiring a signature on my porch going forward and I told him that was fine. I have cameras, I work from home, we don’t have porch pirates in this area (or at least in it’s never happened in the last 5 years I’ve been here). On the other hand, I don’t trust FedEx/UPS at all. I had a Steam Deck stolen in-transit (an empty box was delivered to my porch) and then I had another Steam Deck stolen from a pickup box (I assume stolen by a driver, not from the box directly). The first one I was able to prove and get a free replacement. The second one was something I couldn’t prove and I ate the loss (~$600 IIRC, I keep trying to forget it). I’ll never trust a dropbox again with anything expensive. Arguably I should have been smarter but up till that point I’d returned 10+ $1000+ iPhones the same way without issue.
kioleanu 2y ago
This is happening in Germany too, but in another form. The delivery is handed personally, you sign or confirm it. The package is sealed, but when you open it, there’s something else in there, usually of the same weight as to not trigger alarm bells along the way. The phone or tablet disappears along the way somehow. Then you go into a kafkaesque process with Amazon, who say “sure buddy, we sent you something else”, and then you have to file a police report and probably have to claw the money back which leads to the forfeiture of your account. A good solution I’ve seen from Otto, another big eshop here in Germany is that they seal the package with tape that can’t be removed without damaging either the tape or the box and you are instructed not to accept the package if it’s been tampered with.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  In Asia it's common to record yourself opening the package. Ultimately social trust can't be fixed with technology.
iTokio 2y ago
The solution is that the sender give you a one time code that is required upon delivery.
- shinycode 2y ago
  All my Amazon deliveries above ~100€ (depend on product categories too) are with a OTP and the package is never handed off to me without the code
leosanchez 2y ago
In my country, the delivery driver asks for OTP for items that exceed a certain threshold. Is this not the case for America ?
- elaus 2y ago
  I have only ever seen this for goods bought at Amazon and delivered by Amazon logistics.
- nxm 2y ago
  Nope. I guess amazon did the math and prevalence of theft is not high enough to warrant the extra step in the process
- globular-toast 2y ago
  In the UK I've only had this for Deliveroo or Justeat. Oh and one other time when I ordered a kitchen knife and it said they'd need id etc. Driver didn't ask for id.
stevage 2y ago
Wait, is it really common to deliver high value packages to completely insecure locations like this in the US? They never do that here in Australia. Either sign for it, or you get a card saying where you can go and pick it up, with ID.
- leoedin 2y ago
  I bought a knife on Amazon. Every step of the process says “you must be over 18 and show ID to the delivery driver”. The ordering page, follow up email, tracking page, even the parcel had in huge letters “over 18 ID required”. I found the parcel outside my front door like all the other parcels. Ultimately if the drivers are strongly incentivised to be fast, and not strongly incentivised to follow process, they won’t follow process.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Is that an Amazon thing? There’s no loges requirement to not sell knives to children, right?
SebFender 2y ago
For a second there I thought Porsches were getting their phones stolen ...
sintezcs 2y ago
In my country delivery guys always phone you and knock on your door to give you your package. If you are not at home, they will get the package back and try to deliver it the next day. I’ve never heard of an option to ask them to just leave the package outside.
waltercool 2y ago
[dead]

75 points by TMWNN 2y ago

Requiring a signature, as the article suggests, doesn’t help. The delivery people just ignore it. My iPhone was left outside despite requiring a signature. I changed my schedule to be home when it was delivered. They didn’t even knock on the door before they left it.

cosmic_cheese 2y ago
Similarly living in an apartment complex with a package locker doesn’t necessarily help. At both of the places I lived with one of those, deliveries were routinely dumped on the floor in front of the lockers, and so you’d have to watch delivery status like a hawk, hope you noticed that it was delivered quickly enough, and then awkwardly dig through a bunch of other peoples’ deliveries to retrieve yours. Had a couple of packages disappear that way.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  Man, the worst is "overnight shipping" on Amazon. It's a huge nerf over normal shipping, but they push it like it's some sort of perk. Unless you live in a detached home, "overnight shipping" just means someone's going to call you at 5:30am asking how to enter your apartment and then try again in two days when you don't pick up. One time I did this dance for a week because they kept coming at 4am, and I feel bad for them too, but c'mon "4am-8am" delivery, and they don't have Amazon Locker access? I wish I could disable it permanently.
f33d5173 2y ago
I bought a ~$500 item from amazon the other day. They sent me a code to give to the driver to recieve the package. They told me not to give it over the phone/intercom, and to only give it in person. He tapped it into his phone before giving me the package. I suppose he needed to do so to mark the package as delivered. That seemed a reliable enough system.
- mbreese 2y ago
  Seems like a good system, but it will only work if Amazon is the one doing the final delivery… In cases like this where it is third party (in this case FedEx), there’s no way to manage that.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  How long are they required to wait? They're going to start marking it as undeliverable without knocking just to get done with the route faster. Technical solutions always fail to solve social trust problems.
  - stevage 2y ago
    That definitely happens here in Aus, but I'd still prefer that over a brand new phone left on the verandah.
  - b0bb1z3r0 2y ago
    [dead]
Seattle3503 2y ago
I feel grateful I live in a large condo with concierge service that always receives my packages. I've never had a package stolen since moving in.
orthoxerox 2y ago
> The delivery people just ignore it. When the compensation for stolen items starts being taken out of their pay, they will stop ignoring it.
- Nextgrid 2y ago
  Part of the reason they don't do that is because they're already paying the lowest the market will bear (and being able to steal items might very well be priced in by said market).
tchalla 2y ago
In some countries, delivery items require a 2FA code. I still don’t think it solves the problem as delivery drivers are stressed and this would lead to dropping stuff at alternatives like a post office or something. There’s no full solution until delivery drivers are paid a fair minimum amount.
pimlottc 2y ago
I had a brand new laptop disappear this way. The delivery log shows a failed delivery attempt, followed by a “signed delivery” in my name 5 minutes later. Meanwhile I wasn’t even in the same state. Never did find out what happened to it, fortunately the seller was willing to send a replacement to make it right.

ronnier 2y ago

> The group created software to scrape FedEx tracking numbers and bribed AT&T store employees to get order details and delivery addresses, according to a criminal complaint filed in New Jersey. The group then sent thieves to pick off the packages and bring them back to destinations like the Brooklyn shop > employee also received bonuses of $2,000-2,500 for recruiting other AT&T employees into the scheme.

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago

It is a good scam, but you have to assume you have a limited window before getting caught. Too many accomplices - eventually someone will be caught and rat out the rest of the crew. What other high value items are shipped regularly? I thought Costco started selling gold recently, which seems way more lucrative and harder to trace than phones.

death916 2y ago
That's a good point. I think most people go into Costco to get the gold though. I'd need some good shipping insurance on a $3000+ purchase
sparrish 2y ago
The gold costco sells is serialized. It is traceable and if you report it stolen, if it's found in a pawn shop or the pocket of a thief, you will get it back.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
  Couldn’t you kiss it with a propane torch to melt away the identifiers? Shred it? Some mechanism of making it non traceable.

cton 2y ago

Whatever the solution is here, it must not, under any circumstance, involve an analysis of why people are so willing to steal from one another. All that matters is me getting my iPhone.

renewiltord 2y ago
Are you saying there is some hidden reason why people are doing this? The straightforward reason is that this is a valuable fungible good that you can easily fence. This kind of thing has always been a target for the criminal element. Watches before this. Chains. We don’t need another social science thesis over this. Just like the blonde millionaire in San Diego who organized a crime ring in California, there are people who know how to run other criminal organizations.
- _Algernon_ 2y ago
  Yet somehow - just like school shootings - this appears to be a much worse problem in the US compared to many other countries.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Its only a problem in certain parts of the US. There are some towns where people don't lock their car doors.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Why do you think that?
  - TMWNN 2y ago
    Other people are saying that it's the norm in some other countries for couriers to require a OTP at delivery, something that is very rare in the US. Doesn't that imply that those places have package thievery problems far worse than in the US?

SoftTalker 2y ago

Are deliveries of new iPhones not insured? If they are, I'd think it's the insurance company's problem. I suppose they will claim they have a photo of the package on your doorstep but if a porch pirate gets to it first do they not cover that?

eru 2y ago
Insurance companies don't really turn your problems into their problems. It's easier to think of them turning _risks_ of occasional large losses into a steady constant flow of losses. Whatever level of verification you pick, an insurance company can give you a quote. If you want to implement a very lax policy (without even a photo of the package on the doorstep), the insurance company will charge you an arm and a leg for coverage. If you pick a more robust system, the insurance will become cheaper.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  OK, but if the delivery is covered, with a "photo on the doorstep" level of proof, and the recipient claims they did not receive it, do they (insurance) pay for the loss or is it going to be an argument?
  - eru 2y ago
    That depends on the policy. But you are right that my analysis only really applies for repeat players. So if you have two insurance providers with the same written down policies, but one provider A usually pays out, and the other B fights it tooth and nail, then provider A has an easier time selling their services for a higher price. Reputation matters. Thus in the end (assuming some competition) the actual policies as implemented matter more than what's written down.

Snoozus 2y ago

It would be trivial to keep track the IMEI of the phones and to render them worthless by blacklisting them on the mobile networks. Why is this not done? Same applies to any stolen phones btw.

chneu 2y ago
Carriers have this ability. They'll do it under certain circumstances. This isn't really one of them. It's extra work for the carrier and can result in innocent people being denied service so they lean towards not banning IMEIs. Also it can be spoofed so it isn't a surefire way to ban these devices.
noja 2y ago
It would be even more trivial for Apple to block the phones the same way they do when an Apple Store is broken into. You can’t use an iPhone without an activation via login.
qingcharles 2y ago
They used to get broken down for parts, as the screens etc were still worth hundreds on their own. But since the parts are now encoded, that can't be done as easily.

jjani 2y ago

> Overall, it was a complex, multi-faceted crime ring. Looks like a not-so complex, multi-faceted LLM was used to help write this article :)

red-iron-pine 2y ago
this will soon be most news articles outside of a couple of places, like AP or Reuters

OptionOfT 2y ago

When you buy something online in the USA, the responsibility of the shipper ends once they hand it to the shipping company. At that moment it is your (the customer's) responsibility. Which is weird, as you, the customer, don't have any leverage in enforcing any behavior of the shipping company (like make sure package is signed for). You can't even select them. Apple for example charges you $9 for expedited shipping, which is essentially Uber delivery. But when the delivery person takes off with your $1,200 phone they don't have to replace it. It is on you: https://law.stackexchange.com/a/73842 https://law.stackexchange.com/a/73842 When this whole thing is flipped around, where the sender is responsible until the buyer actually has it in their hands the whole system all of the sudden becomes incentivized to minimize losses. (sidenote: it is a disgrace that Stackoverflow doesn't allow you to turn off auto-sharing of your ID when you share a link).

darreninthenet 2y ago
And this is the situation in the UK - until it is in the hands of the buyer, the seller is wholly responsible for the item and delivering it to you. Consequently, you only ever really see this kind of blase delivery from Amazon, who I guess are rich enough to absorb the cost.
- switch007 2y ago
  > Consequently, you only ever really see this kind of blase delivery from Amazon Sweet innocent child, so lucky never to have suffered (edit: the low cost UK courier) Hermes. Their definition of delivered to you regularly includes left in a bush 3 streets over at a random address Your first paragraph is totally correct and I wish more people stopped wasting so much energy chasing couriers when it's not their job. However, there is a certain reality when people expect free or <£3 delivery costs
  - joachimma 2y ago
    For a while I thought you meant Hermes the luxury brand tossed your stuff in the bushes. Apparently there is a delivery company under the same name.

itpcc 2y ago

Looks like tracking number scraping is so much of an issue now isn't it? (Although, in this case, this incident is also include bribing an employee too.) Quite the same story with the GPU delivery scam covered by LTT recently. [0] In my country, at least, some provider is now requiring related party's phone number to be included in order to access the tracking data. [1] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NpOw1Onf2I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NpOw1Onf2I [1] https://th.kex-express.com/th/track/ https://th.kex-express.com/th/track/

kelnos 2y ago

> Require a signature for all of your valuable deliveries, including and especially iPhones. I'm not sure if this is universal, or region-specific, but out of all the times that I've received something that's been signature-required, it's incredibly rare (single-digit percent) that the driver will actually get my signature. Usually when I see the "SIGNED BY XYZ" note on the delivery notification, it's some random name. 90+% of the time they don't even check my ID when it's a wine delivery, like they're supposed to. Drivers are overworked and have too many deliveries on their plate. They're not going to bother to get signatures.

wodenokoto 2y ago
And even when you are asked to sign, it usually goes like this: "Sign here" "What is it? Who is the recipient?" "Just sign" Like, you don't know what you've signed for until after signing for it.
- stevage 2y ago
  Still, handing the package to a person that was inside the house is much better odds than leaving it outside.
- bitshiftfaced 2y ago
  Reminds me of places that tell you something by speaking to you, and then they want you to sign a digital pad. What does that prove? All you have is a digital signature that will presumably be placed next to some digital text.
joshstrange 2y ago
> Drivers are overworked and have too many deliveries on their plate. They're not going to bother to get signatures. Yeah, I don’t hold this against them at all. My USPS delivery driver asked me the other day if he could just leave packages requiring a signature on my porch going forward and I told him that was fine. I have cameras, I work from home, we don’t have porch pirates in this area (or at least in it’s never happened in the last 5 years I’ve been here). On the other hand, I don’t trust FedEx/UPS at all. I had a Steam Deck stolen in-transit (an empty box was delivered to my porch) and then I had another Steam Deck stolen from a pickup box (I assume stolen by a driver, not from the box directly). The first one I was able to prove and get a free replacement. The second one was something I couldn’t prove and I ate the loss (~$600 IIRC, I keep trying to forget it). I’ll never trust a dropbox again with anything expensive. Arguably I should have been smarter but up till that point I’d returned 10+ $1000+ iPhones the same way without issue.

kioleanu 2y ago

This is happening in Germany too, but in another form. The delivery is handed personally, you sign or confirm it. The package is sealed, but when you open it, there’s something else in there, usually of the same weight as to not trigger alarm bells along the way. The phone or tablet disappears along the way somehow. Then you go into a kafkaesque process with Amazon, who say “sure buddy, we sent you something else”, and then you have to file a police report and probably have to claw the money back which leads to the forfeiture of your account. A good solution I’ve seen from Otto, another big eshop here in Germany is that they seal the package with tape that can’t be removed without damaging either the tape or the box and you are instructed not to accept the package if it’s been tampered with.

throwaway48476 2y ago
In Asia it's common to record yourself opening the package. Ultimately social trust can't be fixed with technology.

iTokio 2y ago

The solution is that the sender give you a one time code that is required upon delivery.

shinycode 2y ago
All my Amazon deliveries above ~100€ (depend on product categories too) are with a OTP and the package is never handed off to me without the code

leosanchez 2y ago

In my country, the delivery driver asks for OTP for items that exceed a certain threshold. Is this not the case for America ?

elaus 2y ago
I have only ever seen this for goods bought at Amazon and delivered by Amazon logistics.
nxm 2y ago
Nope. I guess amazon did the math and prevalence of theft is not high enough to warrant the extra step in the process
globular-toast 2y ago
In the UK I've only had this for Deliveroo or Justeat. Oh and one other time when I ordered a kitchen knife and it said they'd need id etc. Driver didn't ask for id.

stevage 2y ago

Wait, is it really common to deliver high value packages to completely insecure locations like this in the US? They never do that here in Australia. Either sign for it, or you get a card saying where you can go and pick it up, with ID.

leoedin 2y ago
I bought a knife on Amazon. Every step of the process says “you must be over 18 and show ID to the delivery driver”. The ordering page, follow up email, tracking page, even the parcel had in huge letters “over 18 ID required”. I found the parcel outside my front door like all the other parcels. Ultimately if the drivers are strongly incentivised to be fast, and not strongly incentivised to follow process, they won’t follow process.
- echoangle 2y ago
  Is that an Amazon thing? There’s no loges requirement to not sell knives to children, right?

SebFender 2y ago

For a second there I thought Porsches were getting their phones stolen ...

sintezcs 2y ago

In my country delivery guys always phone you and knock on your door to give you your package. If you are not at home, they will get the package back and try to deliver it the next day. I’ve never heard of an option to ask them to just leave the package outside.

waltercool 2y ago

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