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Perhaps so - but imagine they could somehow have had those nukes ready to go. History would've gone differently; likely in a much, much better direction.
by FredPret 2y ago
Perhaps so - but imagine they could somehow have had those nukes ready to go. History would've gone differently; likely in a much, much better direction.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago>Perhaps so - but imagine they could somehow have had those nukes ready to go. What does imagining have to do with reality? Imagine you could fly, shoot lasers from your eyes and shit money out your ass. There's no point in talking about unrealistic hypotheticals. There was 0% chance UN or any world powers would approve Ukraine keeping any of those nukes they inherited from the USSR. And even if we were to imagine they did get to keep them, given Ukraine's situation back then, it was a big chance that some of those nukes or fissile material would end up in the hands of warlords creating more way problems than what we have right now. > History would've gone differently; likely in a much, much better direction. And now Saddam or Ghaddafi or Binladen or 9/11 planes could have been carrying fissile material stolen from poorly kept nukes in Ukraine at the USSR breakup. How is that a better direction? This is the issue when people make short sighted emotional arguments without considering the second order effects of what their decisions would cause. It's like the trolley problem.
- r00fus 2y agoIf you ignore history and reality you can come up with some great fiction, sure.
- FredPret 2y agoYou need to give my comment a very negative reading to come up with that answer. My point - which I thought was very obvious - is that other countries should now pursue their own nuclear programmes because that is seemingly the only deterrent that works.
- r00fus 2y agoDo you then support Iran's nuclear program?
- thunderfork 2y ago[dead]
- snypher 2y agoIf Iran's nuclear program was operational there would be 100,000 less dead Palestinians, and the USA wouldn't be talking about building beachfront resorts there.
- FredPret 2y agoHonestly, this is a great debating question. The point that you keep missing though is that I'm not describing my ideal state of the world. I'm describing the current state of the world. Nukes are the only existential guarantee a state can have nowadays. The leaders of Iran would like their state to continue existing, and have set their strategy accordingly. After Russia invaded Ukraine, and Trump threatened Canada, other nations will be revisiting the calculus around nukes in the years to come. This is much worse than the world order we had, but there you have it.
- mayama 2y agoTo discuss more about future, I sometimes think about Taiwan and how they are not pursuing nukes at all costs as existential threat. Nothing else could guarantee their independence than nukes and they should make nukes even at the cost of country bankruptcy if they are serious. I think they probably are not really serious about invasion. They tried it last time and some opposition party exposed the secret to US.
- ashoeafoot 2y agoTaiwan has conventional rockets aimed at the three gorges dam, its similar to a nuke.
- mayama 2y agoWith the rhoteric China makes of invasion, those rockets didn't seem to deter them.
- aforwardslash 2y agoTaiwan pursuing nukes by itself would be an excuse for an invasion by china. And Taiwan is mostly a small island; any hiccups on a nuclear program could have devastating consequences for the population.