4 ms·
Well we've only been a true "liberal democracy" for the past sixty years or so. Before that we were a de-facto apartheid state. Maybe at a stretch you could say
by ForTheKidz 2y ago
Well we've only been a true "liberal democracy" for the past sixty years or so. Before that we were a de-facto apartheid state. Maybe at a stretch you could say 105 years if you go by the 19th amendment. And frankly i'm still skittish to call America pre-Trump a democracy with my full chest given the electoral college, completely bonkers division of the country into states, the senate, complete lack of a right to vote, our continual human rights abuses in terms of poverty and imprisonment/executions, etc etc.
I'm just saying there's literally dozens and dozens of countries with far more obvious realization of democratic ideals than we've ever managed to figure out, and at this point our age and blind devotion to dead assholes ("founding fathers") are major barriers to any sort of movement forward.
- hcurtiss 2y agoI don't believe any of the founders believed they were creating a "true democracy," or even that it would be desirable. Read Federalist Number 10. The modern fetishism of democracy will lead bad places.
- ForTheKidz 2y agoYes, pretty much all claims of democracy come from the 20th century. I hardly think we were a more functional country at the time, though—it's only through the miracle of rampant exploitation we didn't all just immediately start killing each other. Thank god for the civil war to kick us to continue booting up a democracy. One day we'll finish the job, I swear. Pinky-promise.
- popularrecluse 2y agoI don't think anyone is arguing for a pure democracy where we all vote on every bill. Nice strawman tho
- thomassmith65 2y agoIt's history: if a person doesn't grade on a curve, every page of the textbook looks the same (ie: people being jerks). In order to deny that England, America, and France spearheaded the modern democratic system (albeit inspired by Ancient Greece), a person needs to explain who did?
- ForTheKidz 2y ago> In order to deny that England, America, and France spearheaded the modern democratic system That doesn't mean these governments make any political sense as a democracy today relative to the status quo. Hell, Britain is probably the only government on earth more dysfunctional than America's. At least France refreshed relatively recently; what the hell is Britain's excuse? Even North Korea and Eritrea seem to maintain more dignity internationally than any of the three of us and they barely even attempt to come across as "democratic".
- thomassmith65 2y agoWell, today? No, they're not exceptionally democratic in comparison to other nations – or, at least, not to other Western nations.
- ben_w 2y ago> what the hell is Britain's excuse? It's in the name: United Kingdom. The people like the pomp and ceremony.