7 ms·

Just casually throwing in 'overpopulation' when in so many places, water for actual human needs like drinking, bathing and even washing clothes, is a tiny fract

by davidw 2y ago

Just casually throwing in 'overpopulation' when in so many places, water for actual human needs like drinking, bathing and even washing clothes, is a tiny fraction compared to much more wasteful things like grass, America's largest crop. I live in a dry bit of the American west and municipal usage is a small fraction of water usage (about 8%). Agriculture is often not very efficient because of old water rules that give water to things like hobby farms when real farms downstream don't get what they need.

dralley 2y ago
While that's true it has very little to do with Mexico City's specific issues. It's at 7300 feet elevation surrounded by a ring of mountains that keep out a lot of the rain and moisture, and there's already not that much agriculture going on given the limited space.
- davidw 2y ago
  I don't know anything about water allocation and provisioning in Mexico City, but the article itself doesn't limit itself to Mexico city either: "It exemplifies a future that cities worldwide could face if global warming and overpopulation continue." The city where I live is, I'm sure, very different from Mexico City, but we have reduced our water usage while the population has grown, thanks to things like xeriscaping. I imagine things are more difficult in Mexico City because there is less money, and orders of magnitude more people.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    > we have reduced our water usage while the population has grown I don't know where you live, but if it is a city like most others, you've likely reduced your per-capita water use, but not total water use. This is certainly true of most cities in the American west. They have made impressive (above 30%) reductions in per-capita water use, but they have (in many cases) grown by more than that.
Nifty3929 2y ago
100% this. or 95%. When you say "grass, America's largest crop" I assume you are referring to lawns, but actually I think your last point is the crucial one: "...municipal usage is a small fraction of water usage (about 8%). Agriculture..." California has plenty of water for it's people. If you add up ALL residential, commercial and industrial use, including all outdoor landscape watering, baseball fields, golf courses, etc - it all adds up to around 10-20% of the water used (depending on rainfall). Where does the rest (80-90%) of California's water go? Agriculture. Half the produce of which is exported to other states and countries. Did you know CA grows a LOT of rice near it's capitol, which is naturally almost a desert? And about half of that rice is exported, much to Asia (!!) California is rather like Saudi Arabia, with the farmers pumping out all the water and selling it in the form of agricultural produce. But take a shorter shower please! And you don't really NEED to flush that toilet.
- animal_spirits 2y ago
  I kind of understand this argument, but I kind of don't. Does this argument prefer that there is less food production in California? > It supplies one-third of U.S. vegetables and three-quarters of its fruit and nuts. California is the country’s biggest milk producer, producing nearly 20 percent of the nation’s milk. And of all crops grown in the U.S., 19 of them – including almonds, pistachios, walnuts, raisins, olives, plums and table grapes – are grown only in California. - https://www.perkins.com/en_GB/campaigns/powernews/features/california--the-state-that-feeds-america.html https://www.perkins.com/en_GB/campaigns/powernews/features/c...
  - dylan604 2y ago
    There's a lot of crops that are grown in CA that are not native to the area, and require a lot of water to be viable in that area. Trying to grow a crop native to monsoon areas in a dry area is just unsane.
    - KoolKat23 2y ago
      And growing a human in that area? Would it not also be a drag on the area? At what point does blame the plants become blame all alien life including human? (Not referring to your comment, I feel often people tend to handwave themselves out the equation).
Reubachi 2y ago
The "real farms" (Ie beef, dairy, grains, corns) you mentioned are absorbing on the order of 80 percent of the water, not commercial and private lawns/grass. Hobby farms with several cows and a shop that sells maple syrup consum eabout 1/10000th a percent of water as for example con-agra suppliers, nestle etc. There is the constantly rotating story of "this one small family farm in colorado uses more of california's water than LA county". That is a LARGE conglomerate farm which is part of the corporate farm problem, not mom and pop farms. I assure you;In the USA specifically, your families ability to eat and provide food for the things we eat WILL be more important in the long run than bathing or washing clothes, until we decide that beef proteins aren't the msot sustainable.
hgfrujbguijh 2y ago
that sounds a lot like where i live (bend, or)
- davidw 2y ago
  That's where I am https://www.centraloregonlandwatch.org/update/2021/5/5/drought-and-the-deschutes-looking-at-the-same-river-twice https://www.centraloregonlandwatch.org/update/2021/5/5/droug... is really informative.
bri3k 2y ago
I hate when they promote the use of low-flow toilets which save 1-2 gallons when compared to irrigation of farm land measured in acre-inches of water. A acre-inch of water is 27,000 gallons. Corn needs 12 acre-inches to grow to maturity, or over 325,000 per acre.

by davidw 2y ago

dralley 2y ago

While that's true it has very little to do with Mexico City's specific issues. It's at 7300 feet elevation surrounded by a ring of mountains that keep out a lot of the rain and moisture, and there's already not that much agriculture going on given the limited space.

davidw 2y ago
I don't know anything about water allocation and provisioning in Mexico City, but the article itself doesn't limit itself to Mexico city either: "It exemplifies a future that cities worldwide could face if global warming and overpopulation continue." The city where I live is, I'm sure, very different from Mexico City, but we have reduced our water usage while the population has grown, thanks to things like xeriscaping. I imagine things are more difficult in Mexico City because there is less money, and orders of magnitude more people.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  > we have reduced our water usage while the population has grown I don't know where you live, but if it is a city like most others, you've likely reduced your per-capita water use, but not total water use. This is certainly true of most cities in the American west. They have made impressive (above 30%) reductions in per-capita water use, but they have (in many cases) grown by more than that.

Nifty3929 2y ago

100% this. or 95%. When you say "grass, America's largest crop" I assume you are referring to lawns, but actually I think your last point is the crucial one: "...municipal usage is a small fraction of water usage (about 8%). Agriculture..." California has plenty of water for it's people. If you add up ALL residential, commercial and industrial use, including all outdoor landscape watering, baseball fields, golf courses, etc - it all adds up to around 10-20% of the water used (depending on rainfall). Where does the rest (80-90%) of California's water go? Agriculture. Half the produce of which is exported to other states and countries. Did you know CA grows a LOT of rice near it's capitol, which is naturally almost a desert? And about half of that rice is exported, much to Asia (!!) California is rather like Saudi Arabia, with the farmers pumping out all the water and selling it in the form of agricultural produce. But take a shorter shower please! And you don't really NEED to flush that toilet.

animal_spirits 2y ago
I kind of understand this argument, but I kind of don't. Does this argument prefer that there is less food production in California? > It supplies one-third of U.S. vegetables and three-quarters of its fruit and nuts. California is the country’s biggest milk producer, producing nearly 20 percent of the nation’s milk. And of all crops grown in the U.S., 19 of them – including almonds, pistachios, walnuts, raisins, olives, plums and table grapes – are grown only in California. - https://www.perkins.com/en_GB/campaigns/powernews/features/california--the-state-that-feeds-america.html https://www.perkins.com/en_GB/campaigns/powernews/features/c...
- dylan604 2y ago
  There's a lot of crops that are grown in CA that are not native to the area, and require a lot of water to be viable in that area. Trying to grow a crop native to monsoon areas in a dry area is just unsane.
  - KoolKat23 2y ago
    And growing a human in that area? Would it not also be a drag on the area? At what point does blame the plants become blame all alien life including human? (Not referring to your comment, I feel often people tend to handwave themselves out the equation).

Reubachi 2y ago

The "real farms" (Ie beef, dairy, grains, corns) you mentioned are absorbing on the order of 80 percent of the water, not commercial and private lawns/grass. Hobby farms with several cows and a shop that sells maple syrup consum eabout 1/10000th a percent of water as for example con-agra suppliers, nestle etc. There is the constantly rotating story of "this one small family farm in colorado uses more of california's water than LA county". That is a LARGE conglomerate farm which is part of the corporate farm problem, not mom and pop farms. I assure you;In the USA specifically, your families ability to eat and provide food for the things we eat WILL be more important in the long run than bathing or washing clothes, until we decide that beef proteins aren't the msot sustainable.

hgfrujbguijh 2y ago

that sounds a lot like where i live (bend, or)

davidw 2y ago
That's where I am https://www.centraloregonlandwatch.org/update/2021/5/5/drought-and-the-deschutes-looking-at-the-same-river-twice https://www.centraloregonlandwatch.org/update/2021/5/5/droug... is really informative.

bri3k 2y ago

I hate when they promote the use of low-flow toilets which save 1-2 gallons when compared to irrigation of farm land measured in acre-inches of water. A acre-inch of water is 27,000 gallons. Corn needs 12 acre-inches to grow to maturity, or over 325,000 per acre.