4 ms·

>Is that because the tech is 50 years old from before QWERTY was the standard? QWERTY predates electronic devices.

by Suppafly 2y ago

marcellus23 2y ago
True. Makes the decision even more baffling.
- esoterae 2y ago
  Keyboards in aircraft instrumentation certainly do NOT predate electronic devices. Given that one-handed operation for instrumentation is almost always the primary mode of interaction, and instrument panels are really just face-plates on quite deep electronic device containers, the idea of a widescreen panel hole profile just to fit the input keys in a different format/aspect ratio does not make sense. Some of the most interesting aviation research in the past few decades have been around human factors like psychology, perception, and cognition. If there was some substantial effect to having the buttons be arranged in a different pattern, I do legitimately hope it would have been found by now. Do keep in mind these devices are cost-prohibitive in the extreme to design, build, and certify. The idea of having separate, parallel processes in order to have a different button layout between regional devices creates a thousand headaches of its own, both before and after production. The issue goes even further, in that just the FAA alone requires simulators of these aircraft to have replicated button look and feel criteria that would make your head spin. Is there even going to be a question as to if you're going to have to have two simulators? Will type-ratings be transferrable? Will there be separate differences training and/or currency requirements between the two distinct input methods? Some or even most of those answers might turn out favorably for manufacturers or operators or pilots. But just having to ask them drives costs up considerably.
  - marcellus23 2y ago
    These are all very good points. Thanks for explaining!
  - pests 2y ago
    >if you're going to have to have two simulators? Will type-ratings be transferrable? Will there be separate differences training and/or currency requirements between the two distinct input methods? Boeing found a way.
  - TylerE 2y ago
    As a counterpoint... 50 or 60 years ago your average person wouldn't be familiar with QWERTY unless they were in one of a fairly small number of professions (secretary, author, journalist...). QWERTY was something you had to learn. These days everyone types on a keyboard. It's way more universal, to the point where a non QWERTY layout has to impose additional cognitive load.
    - GTP 2y ago
      > These days everyone types on a keyboard It was common to type on a keyboard also before, it just was a typewriter's keyboard.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
buildsjets 2y ago
QWERTY was invented to make input slower on mechanical devices and prevent the mechanical equivalent of a buffer overflow.
- gschizas 2y ago
  That's mostly a myth. I've seen a YouTube video in the last couple of years that explained the true origins of the QWERTY keyboard. Originally, the keyboard was alphabetical and arranged two rows, based on a piano keyboard, the black keys went A-N left to right, and the white keys went O-Z, right to left. Then it got shortened in width and the letters got folded over (this is why at the right edge of the middle row you have HJKL and the bottom row has MN reversed as NM). I'm not 100% sure this was the video I saw, but it has some of the points: https://youtu.be/c8f6us-Sjlo https://youtu.be/c8f6us-Sjlo
  - brontitall 2y ago
    This was posted a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43381088 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43381088
    - gschizas 2y ago
      Thanks - I wish I could find the video I watched. I think it had the information in that article, but in a more digestible format.
- esoterae 2y ago
  I always thought of it as more of a race condition.
- ForTheKidz 2y ago
  > QWERTY was invented to make input slower on mechanical devices and prevent the mechanical equivalent of a buffer overflow. This is sort of like saying a c compiler is there to stop you from dereferencing null pointers

>Is that because the tech is 50 years old from before QWERTY was the standard? QWERTY predates electronic devices.

marcellus23 2y ago

True. Makes the decision even more baffling.

esoterae 2y ago
Keyboards in aircraft instrumentation certainly do NOT predate electronic devices. Given that one-handed operation for instrumentation is almost always the primary mode of interaction, and instrument panels are really just face-plates on quite deep electronic device containers, the idea of a widescreen panel hole profile just to fit the input keys in a different format/aspect ratio does not make sense. Some of the most interesting aviation research in the past few decades have been around human factors like psychology, perception, and cognition. If there was some substantial effect to having the buttons be arranged in a different pattern, I do legitimately hope it would have been found by now. Do keep in mind these devices are cost-prohibitive in the extreme to design, build, and certify. The idea of having separate, parallel processes in order to have a different button layout between regional devices creates a thousand headaches of its own, both before and after production. The issue goes even further, in that just the FAA alone requires simulators of these aircraft to have replicated button look and feel criteria that would make your head spin. Is there even going to be a question as to if you're going to have to have two simulators? Will type-ratings be transferrable? Will there be separate differences training and/or currency requirements between the two distinct input methods? Some or even most of those answers might turn out favorably for manufacturers or operators or pilots. But just having to ask them drives costs up considerably.
- marcellus23 2y ago
  These are all very good points. Thanks for explaining!
- pests 2y ago
  >if you're going to have to have two simulators? Will type-ratings be transferrable? Will there be separate differences training and/or currency requirements between the two distinct input methods? Boeing found a way.
- TylerE 2y ago
  As a counterpoint... 50 or 60 years ago your average person wouldn't be familiar with QWERTY unless they were in one of a fairly small number of professions (secretary, author, journalist...). QWERTY was something you had to learn. These days everyone types on a keyboard. It's way more universal, to the point where a non QWERTY layout has to impose additional cognitive load.
  - GTP 2y ago
    > These days everyone types on a keyboard It was common to type on a keyboard also before, it just was a typewriter's keyboard.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

buildsjets 2y ago

QWERTY was invented to make input slower on mechanical devices and prevent the mechanical equivalent of a buffer overflow.

gschizas 2y ago
That's mostly a myth. I've seen a YouTube video in the last couple of years that explained the true origins of the QWERTY keyboard. Originally, the keyboard was alphabetical and arranged two rows, based on a piano keyboard, the black keys went A-N left to right, and the white keys went O-Z, right to left. Then it got shortened in width and the letters got folded over (this is why at the right edge of the middle row you have HJKL and the bottom row has MN reversed as NM). I'm not 100% sure this was the video I saw, but it has some of the points: https://youtu.be/c8f6us-Sjlo https://youtu.be/c8f6us-Sjlo
- brontitall 2y ago
  This was posted a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43381088 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43381088
  - gschizas 2y ago
    Thanks - I wish I could find the video I watched. I think it had the information in that article, but in a more digestible format.
esoterae 2y ago
I always thought of it as more of a race condition.
ForTheKidz 2y ago
> QWERTY was invented to make input slower on mechanical devices and prevent the mechanical equivalent of a buffer overflow. This is sort of like saying a c compiler is there to stop you from dereferencing null pointers