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In terms of resource extraction needed for the batteries and the panels, how sustainable is it? The way I understand it is that you can't really repair broken

In terms of resource extraction needed for the batteries and the panels, how sustainable is it? The way I understand it is that you can't really repair broken panels and batteries... Can we still make these after, let's say, 500 years? I have no conception at all in this topic...

pjc50 2y ago
No, but I don't see a good reason why you can't recycle the cells especially given they contain a thin layer of silver. Google already finds local recycling firms, since it's required by WEEE. (The 500 years question has issues for all the other sources of energy as well!)
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ZeroGravitas 2y ago
Yes, batteries are getting better at such a rate that you can recycle old batteries at end of life, lose 10% of the material in that process and build a new battery with new tech and less material that is better than the original. The resource extraction issue is more than these are so useful we're going to build an ever growing amount of them. Luckily they're made from widely available materials, with even more widely available substitutions possible e.g sodium batteries.
adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
You can't repair, but you can recycle (although doing so likely isn't very profitable until the exponential price decrease stops)
ben_w 2y ago
The resources all start off chemically bound in rocks that aren't famous for spontaneously generating or storing electricity. I don't see it being meaningfully more expensive to process smashed up old PV or batteries than starting from the natural state, and my expectation is that it would be easier. The exception would be if some of the chemical pathways turn into low-concentration atmospheric gasses that then diffuse all over the world, which is how we got the problem with CO2 (and unrelated problems with CFCs).
pfdietz 2y ago
Aside from silver for contact wires, PV panels are made (or could be made) with mundane materials available in essentially unlimited amounts. The total mass flowing through new PV panels each year if the US were fully solar powered would be much less than the volume of mundane material flowing through the system already. For example, the EPA estimated that in 2018 the US generated 600 million tons of construction and demolition waste (of which 143 million tons went to landfills.) https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-and-recycling/construction-and-demolition-debris-material https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-...

pjc50 2y ago

No, but I don't see a good reason why you can't recycle the cells especially given they contain a thin layer of silver. Google already finds local recycling firms, since it's required by WEEE. (The 500 years question has issues for all the other sources of energy as well!)

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ZeroGravitas 2y ago

Yes, batteries are getting better at such a rate that you can recycle old batteries at end of life, lose 10% of the material in that process and build a new battery with new tech and less material that is better than the original. The resource extraction issue is more than these are so useful we're going to build an ever growing amount of them. Luckily they're made from widely available materials, with even more widely available substitutions possible e.g sodium batteries.

adgjlsfhk1 2y ago

You can't repair, but you can recycle (although doing so likely isn't very profitable until the exponential price decrease stops)

ben_w 2y ago

The resources all start off chemically bound in rocks that aren't famous for spontaneously generating or storing electricity. I don't see it being meaningfully more expensive to process smashed up old PV or batteries than starting from the natural state, and my expectation is that it would be easier. The exception would be if some of the chemical pathways turn into low-concentration atmospheric gasses that then diffuse all over the world, which is how we got the problem with CO2 (and unrelated problems with CFCs).

pfdietz 2y ago

Aside from silver for contact wires, PV panels are made (or could be made) with mundane materials available in essentially unlimited amounts. The total mass flowing through new PV panels each year if the US were fully solar powered would be much less than the volume of mundane material flowing through the system already. For example, the EPA estimated that in 2018 the US generated 600 million tons of construction and demolition waste (of which 143 million tons went to landfills.) https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-and-recycling/construction-and-demolition-debris-material https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-...