4 ms·

> If you get big enough, they swoop in and make you turn everything you've invented into an open standard? This constantly gets reframed in the wrong way, and

> If you get big enough, they swoop in and make you turn everything you've invented into an open standard? This constantly gets reframed in the wrong way, and I start to wonder if this intentional or not. The listed features are all functionalities that Apple is using to gain an unfair advantage for ADJACENT products and services. It is not an issue that iOS has such features, the EU doesn't care. It is an issue that OTHER Apple products like Headphones, Smart Watches etc. are using them exclusively while competing with other vendors for the same customer. The EU DMA has identified that Apple created a closed market of significant size, made themselves the gatekeeper and invited companies to compete there. But Apple decided to enter the market also as a player, and skew the playing field in their favor. So it's an unjust market where forces are unable to flow freely, and the EU is attempting to rectify that.

bri3d 2y ago
> The listed features are all functionalities that Apple is using to gain an unfair advantage for ADJACENT products and services. It is not an issue that iOS has such features, the EU doesn't care. AirDrop and AirPlay seem pretty benign from this standpoint; I guess you could argue they're using their ~30% market share in phones to try to unfairly influence the personal computer market with a feature that... transfers files? And, no remote playback solution is open at all for DRM reasons. AirPlay is no different in this regard: you either make some sort of "agreement" with Apple and they give you a certificate and a binary blob to run on your hardware, or you reverse engineer it. That's the same way Google Cast and everything else on the market works. > So it's an unjust market where forces are unable to flow freely, and the EU is attempting to rectify that. I see the EU's stance here. I just think it's not true for these specific features. I think that many of the App Store considerations addressed separately with the DMA are generally reasonable: in that case Apple have truly created a closed market in an adjacent space in which they are also a player, and leveraged their position to shut out competition inside of their walled garden. I guess I see "phones and phone accessories" as a reasonable market segment in and of itself, with ample competition. I can choose to buy the Apple Phone Package (iPhone, Watch, AirPods) or the Google-based Phone Package (Android Phone, some random watch, some random earbuds). Not only are these packages already cross-compatible in most ways, but neither package has a dominant market position. If Apple had 90% market share and wouldn't let their phone pair with anything but an AirPod, I'd feel differently, but that's just not the state of reality. > This constantly gets reframed in the wrong way, and I start to wonder if this intentional or not. People who disagree with me are part of a conspiracy! I know it!
- rickdeckard 2y ago
  It's not a matter of disagreeing, it's a matter of reframing the topic like Apple is forced to turn everything into an open standard. > I see the EU's stance here. I just think it's not true for these specific features. Understood. Nonetheless it is objectively true that those features only work with other devices of Apple. DMA is not an Apple-regulation, it's a set of agnostic criterias that have been met by those features. I think you consider Phone+Watch+Earbuds an inseparable set of one experience. But this is actually a perception created by Apple. Now Apple is still free to do all that going forward, but they are not allowed to restrict i.e. an Earbuds competitor from challenging that experience. Right now they do that, because no matter how great i.e. Garmin is making a smartwatch, they are technically restricted from matching the features of an Apple Watch. Technically restricted by Apple themselves.

bri3d 2y ago

> The listed features are all functionalities that Apple is using to gain an unfair advantage for ADJACENT products and services. It is not an issue that iOS has such features, the EU doesn't care. AirDrop and AirPlay seem pretty benign from this standpoint; I guess you could argue they're using their ~30% market share in phones to try to unfairly influence the personal computer market with a feature that... transfers files? And, no remote playback solution is open at all for DRM reasons. AirPlay is no different in this regard: you either make some sort of "agreement" with Apple and they give you a certificate and a binary blob to run on your hardware, or you reverse engineer it. That's the same way Google Cast and everything else on the market works. > So it's an unjust market where forces are unable to flow freely, and the EU is attempting to rectify that. I see the EU's stance here. I just think it's not true for these specific features. I think that many of the App Store considerations addressed separately with the DMA are generally reasonable: in that case Apple have truly created a closed market in an adjacent space in which they are also a player, and leveraged their position to shut out competition inside of their walled garden. I guess I see "phones and phone accessories" as a reasonable market segment in and of itself, with ample competition. I can choose to buy the Apple Phone Package (iPhone, Watch, AirPods) or the Google-based Phone Package (Android Phone, some random watch, some random earbuds). Not only are these packages already cross-compatible in most ways, but neither package has a dominant market position. If Apple had 90% market share and wouldn't let their phone pair with anything but an AirPod, I'd feel differently, but that's just not the state of reality. > This constantly gets reframed in the wrong way, and I start to wonder if this intentional or not. People who disagree with me are part of a conspiracy! I know it!

rickdeckard 2y ago
It's not a matter of disagreeing, it's a matter of reframing the topic like Apple is forced to turn everything into an open standard. > I see the EU's stance here. I just think it's not true for these specific features. Understood. Nonetheless it is objectively true that those features only work with other devices of Apple. DMA is not an Apple-regulation, it's a set of agnostic criterias that have been met by those features. I think you consider Phone+Watch+Earbuds an inseparable set of one experience. But this is actually a perception created by Apple. Now Apple is still free to do all that going forward, but they are not allowed to restrict i.e. an Earbuds competitor from challenging that experience. Right now they do that, because no matter how great i.e. Garmin is making a smartwatch, they are technically restricted from matching the features of an Apple Watch. Technically restricted by Apple themselves.