8 ms·

This is standard behavior, nothing special to Trump. Interesting that you immediately think Trumpers, rather than that the government is always sadistic.

by 762236 2y ago

steveBK123 2y ago
We can concede that the government is a big unwieldy machine where things slip through the cracks and mistakes get made. BUT.. One guy ran on doing this explicitly, and his administration gleefully posts deportation shame p*rn videos on social media. This isn't a "both sides are totally the same, nothing changed" thing.
- 762236 2y ago
  This isn't falling through the cracks. It is what always happens to people accused of violating their visa terms.
stephen_g 2y ago
There’s a clear and massive change in the number of people this is happening to since Trump started making executive orders though. The system was always evil, but Trump seems to have dialled it up 10x…
- steveBK123 2y ago
  Right, one side looks at the machine and says "this is bad, needs reform".. The other side says "this is not bad enough, I am running on making this worse, and going to loudly broadcast how happy I am that I've made it worse". Seems quite different.
- 762236 2y ago
  Possibly enforcement has increased, as Trump ran on that, but the behavior towards those found violating their visa terms has always been like this.
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    If you think it's good, go ahead and just say it. Let's not play the Trumper parlour game of "sure he said it, but it didn't happen, ok maybe if it did happen it always happened.." I worked with many dozens to 100s of consultants over 20 years whose employers had very loose interpretations of what was allowed under ESTAs. Some of them had re-entry issues, but no one ever ended up in prison or chains like this. Do you know a lot of software engineers and white collar works this regularly happened to?
    - 762236 2y ago
      I know people that it happened to, white collar, from Germany. I don't know why you think I'm saying this is good, when I've called it sadistic. What's annoying is that people only care about it now because it helps them confirm their bias that Trump is evil. Sad.
mjburgess 2y ago
It'd be more accurate to say the state is a machine which operates according to procedural rules (laws, dictates, etc.) that aren't amoral in their construction. This is part of the nature of states -- and any large social institutions which are governed in this manner. It's this proceduralisation of action which allows very large groups of people to operate together collectively -- the downside is "procedural sadism", if you wish to call it that.

This is standard behavior, nothing special to Trump. Interesting that you immediately think Trumpers, rather than that the government is always sadistic.

by 762236 2y ago

This is standard behavior, nothing special to Trump. Interesting that you immediately think Trumpers, rather than that the government is always sadistic.

steveBK123 2y ago

We can concede that the government is a big unwieldy machine where things slip through the cracks and mistakes get made. BUT.. One guy ran on doing this explicitly, and his administration gleefully posts deportation shame p*rn videos on social media. This isn't a "both sides are totally the same, nothing changed" thing.

762236 2y ago
This isn't falling through the cracks. It is what always happens to people accused of violating their visa terms.

stephen_g 2y ago

There’s a clear and massive change in the number of people this is happening to since Trump started making executive orders though. The system was always evil, but Trump seems to have dialled it up 10x…

steveBK123 2y ago
Right, one side looks at the machine and says "this is bad, needs reform".. The other side says "this is not bad enough, I am running on making this worse, and going to loudly broadcast how happy I am that I've made it worse". Seems quite different.
762236 2y ago
Possibly enforcement has increased, as Trump ran on that, but the behavior towards those found violating their visa terms has always been like this.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  If you think it's good, go ahead and just say it. Let's not play the Trumper parlour game of "sure he said it, but it didn't happen, ok maybe if it did happen it always happened.." I worked with many dozens to 100s of consultants over 20 years whose employers had very loose interpretations of what was allowed under ESTAs. Some of them had re-entry issues, but no one ever ended up in prison or chains like this. Do you know a lot of software engineers and white collar works this regularly happened to?
  - 762236 2y ago
    I know people that it happened to, white collar, from Germany. I don't know why you think I'm saying this is good, when I've called it sadistic. What's annoying is that people only care about it now because it helps them confirm their bias that Trump is evil. Sad.

mjburgess 2y ago

It'd be more accurate to say the state is a machine which operates according to procedural rules (laws, dictates, etc.) that aren't amoral in their construction. This is part of the nature of states -- and any large social institutions which are governed in this manner. It's this proceduralisation of action which allows very large groups of people to operate together collectively -- the downside is "procedural sadism", if you wish to call it that.