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No. The main reason we got in this mess is because the US is a better market for startups, simply because of the amount of available money, and the fact that it

No. The main reason we got in this mess is because the US is a better market for startups, simply because of the amount of available money, and the fact that it’s easier to start in a market with 340M people who speak the same language.

Grumbledour 2y ago
But, at least speaking for Germany here, the anti-technology stance of politicians and Germans in general certainly has a huge part in hampering the startup scene. This always goes both ways. It's not wrong to be skeptical and wanting privacy etc., but it also means it's harder to make bank by tracking everyone and selling their data, which has been a huge part of American technology startups for over a decade. And it often also just means, people don't trust new things and will not try them. Not sure this applies equally to the Netherlands though.
- spiderfarmer 2y ago
  The Dutch people are early adopters. But our startups generally think way too small.
egorfine 2y ago
Also yes, because it's easier to start in a jurisdiction with sane laws and bearable tax burden, none of which is available in the EU. EU is indeed drowning in mind boggling bureaucracy. Source: am a startup in the EU.
- owisd 2y ago
  If it was merely about taxes and regulations then nobody would want to choose California over almost any other state for their startup.
  - egorfine 2y ago
    I'm not sure about that. Say, at-will employment exists in California and that's just one simple example off the top of my head. In Germany, an employee is near impossible to fire.
  - acdha 2y ago
    This popular mythology in certain circles but it relies on people not calculating the effective total tax rate, including local and property taxes, and in that case California is the 13th cheapest state in the country: https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416 https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer... You also want to consider what your taxes fund – for example, a startup founder probably benefits from proximity to two of the best university systems in the country and the better quality of life means you get more top people in your employee and networking pools. The ultra-rich are going to leave but a founder who isn’t already in the top income bracket is making an economically rational decision.
    - scryers_bloom 2y ago
      This is extremely enlightening. I'm not surprised New York is basically the most expensive state to live in. There are obvious outliers though, such as Alaska, where you end up paying 50% markup on most basic home amenities just because of transit costs. I think I need to check up on where most of NYS money is really going.
  - Cthulhu_ 2y ago
    A lot of companies are moving to Texas though (https://www.newsweek.com/multiple-companies-ditching-california-texas-2027506 https://www.newsweek.com/multiple-companies-ditching-califor...)
  - paleotrope 2y ago
    Lag effect. 30-40 years ago, California was a different place, way more business friendly. Lots of military connected companies. Lots of money. Lots of people moving there. Educated workforce. It's very different now.
- zoobab 2y ago
  "EU is indeed drowning in mind boggling bureaucracy." Just look at how many software patents the EPO keeps printing.
jensgk 2y ago
Trust in the US was also at big part of it. That trust is now gone.
gessha 2y ago
> because of the amount of available money And that capital was started by major government investment in semiconductor manufacturing.
alephnerd 2y ago
Israel is a small market and English fluency is worse than much of Western Europe (imo roughly comparable to France), yet they were able to crack the US market despite both being poorer than much of Western Europe until barely a couple years ago and having similar access to American markets. And barely 20-25 years ago, Dutch firms like Philips NV and NXP Semi were both major players in the electronics and software industry, yet squandered their lead. The issue is European leaders in both the private and public sector just don't care for technology, are overwhelmingly from legal and non-STEM financial/consulting backgrounds. The capital flight due to the Eurozone crisis also played a role, but Israel was also heavily impacted by that as well.

Grumbledour 2y ago

But, at least speaking for Germany here, the anti-technology stance of politicians and Germans in general certainly has a huge part in hampering the startup scene. This always goes both ways. It's not wrong to be skeptical and wanting privacy etc., but it also means it's harder to make bank by tracking everyone and selling their data, which has been a huge part of American technology startups for over a decade. And it often also just means, people don't trust new things and will not try them. Not sure this applies equally to the Netherlands though.

spiderfarmer 2y ago
The Dutch people are early adopters. But our startups generally think way too small.

egorfine 2y ago

Also yes, because it's easier to start in a jurisdiction with sane laws and bearable tax burden, none of which is available in the EU. EU is indeed drowning in mind boggling bureaucracy. Source: am a startup in the EU.

owisd 2y ago
If it was merely about taxes and regulations then nobody would want to choose California over almost any other state for their startup.
- egorfine 2y ago
  I'm not sure about that. Say, at-will employment exists in California and that's just one simple example off the top of my head. In Germany, an employee is near impossible to fire.
- acdha 2y ago
  This popular mythology in certain circles but it relies on people not calculating the effective total tax rate, including local and property taxes, and in that case California is the 13th cheapest state in the country: https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer/2416 https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-states-to-be-a-taxpayer... You also want to consider what your taxes fund – for example, a startup founder probably benefits from proximity to two of the best university systems in the country and the better quality of life means you get more top people in your employee and networking pools. The ultra-rich are going to leave but a founder who isn’t already in the top income bracket is making an economically rational decision.
  - scryers_bloom 2y ago
    This is extremely enlightening. I'm not surprised New York is basically the most expensive state to live in. There are obvious outliers though, such as Alaska, where you end up paying 50% markup on most basic home amenities just because of transit costs. I think I need to check up on where most of NYS money is really going.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  A lot of companies are moving to Texas though (https://www.newsweek.com/multiple-companies-ditching-california-texas-2027506 https://www.newsweek.com/multiple-companies-ditching-califor...)
- paleotrope 2y ago
  Lag effect. 30-40 years ago, California was a different place, way more business friendly. Lots of military connected companies. Lots of money. Lots of people moving there. Educated workforce. It's very different now.
zoobab 2y ago
"EU is indeed drowning in mind boggling bureaucracy." Just look at how many software patents the EPO keeps printing.

jensgk 2y ago

Trust in the US was also at big part of it. That trust is now gone.

gessha 2y ago

> because of the amount of available money And that capital was started by major government investment in semiconductor manufacturing.

alephnerd 2y ago

Israel is a small market and English fluency is worse than much of Western Europe (imo roughly comparable to France), yet they were able to crack the US market despite both being poorer than much of Western Europe until barely a couple years ago and having similar access to American markets. And barely 20-25 years ago, Dutch firms like Philips NV and NXP Semi were both major players in the electronics and software industry, yet squandered their lead. The issue is European leaders in both the private and public sector just don't care for technology, are overwhelmingly from legal and non-STEM financial/consulting backgrounds. The capital flight due to the Eurozone crisis also played a role, but Israel was also heavily impacted by that as well.