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Ignoring the magnitude of the lies makes that comparison an act of self-deception. This administration lies on a scale which is unprecedented in modern American

by acdha 2y ago

Ignoring the magnitude of the lies makes that comparison an act of self-deception. This administration lies on a scale which is unprecedented in modern American history, and they appear to treat it as a loyalty test where people who have integrity are identified and replaced with loyalists. The NASA folks quoted here are clearly aware that this is untrue but also that there will be personal consequences if they say the truth.

_heimdall 2y ago
I'm not ignoring the magnitude of the lies, that wasn't raised at all by the comment I replied to. Magnitude when it comes to politicians lying is a tough one to pin down though, its pretty subjective. I took huge issue with many of the lies being shared by the white house during Civic, for example, but many (most?) don't agree and may not even agree they should be considered lies given what we may presume was known st the time.
- acdha 2y ago
  When you say it’s “just politics”, you’re removing a sense of proportion which serves the interests of the biggest offenders. Nixon and Obama both broke laws, but stating it like that obscures the fact that one of them threatened the American system of government and the latter deprived the city of Somerville of parking ticket revenue.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    We're talking past each other a bit here. I was replying to a comment taking issue with lies being told to appeal to voters. I didn't raise severity or magnitude of lies because that was off topic. Comparing magnitude of a lie is hard. You first need to define a baseline to compare against, then you need to define the metrics you argue are relevant to measure severity of the lies. Talking about how obvious the lies are may be easier. Plenty of the things Trump says can be disproven very quickly, or are themselves logically inconsistent.
marcusverus 2y ago
> Ignoring the magnitude of the lies makes that comparison an act of self-deception Joe Biden ended Trump-era policies for the express purpose of facilitating the flow of illegal immigrants into the United States. When this drove border crossings up to 4-5X the historical rate, he told Americans that he lacked the power to seal the border, and that we should pass new legislation to empower him to do so. Then they put provisions into said legislation which would have only required the actual enforcement of border laws if/when the rate of illegal immigration exceeded a set level (which was ~5X the historical rate). I can't think of a single case in human history in which a leader had so much contempt for his own people that he created a problem for them, then used their frustration with said problem to garner their support for a proposed "solution" which was clearly designed to exacerbate the problem. [0]https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-enc...

by acdha 2y ago

_heimdall 2y ago

I'm not ignoring the magnitude of the lies, that wasn't raised at all by the comment I replied to. Magnitude when it comes to politicians lying is a tough one to pin down though, its pretty subjective. I took huge issue with many of the lies being shared by the white house during Civic, for example, but many (most?) don't agree and may not even agree they should be considered lies given what we may presume was known st the time.

acdha 2y ago
When you say it’s “just politics”, you’re removing a sense of proportion which serves the interests of the biggest offenders. Nixon and Obama both broke laws, but stating it like that obscures the fact that one of them threatened the American system of government and the latter deprived the city of Somerville of parking ticket revenue.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  We're talking past each other a bit here. I was replying to a comment taking issue with lies being told to appeal to voters. I didn't raise severity or magnitude of lies because that was off topic. Comparing magnitude of a lie is hard. You first need to define a baseline to compare against, then you need to define the metrics you argue are relevant to measure severity of the lies. Talking about how obvious the lies are may be easier. Plenty of the things Trump says can be disproven very quickly, or are themselves logically inconsistent.

marcusverus 2y ago

> Ignoring the magnitude of the lies makes that comparison an act of self-deception Joe Biden ended Trump-era policies for the express purpose of facilitating the flow of illegal immigrants into the United States. When this drove border crossings up to 4-5X the historical rate, he told Americans that he lacked the power to seal the border, and that we should pass new legislation to empower him to do so. Then they put provisions into said legislation which would have only required the actual enforcement of border laws if/when the rate of illegal immigration exceeded a set level (which was ~5X the historical rate). I can't think of a single case in human history in which a leader had so much contempt for his own people that he created a problem for them, then used their frustration with said problem to garner their support for a proposed "solution" which was clearly designed to exacerbate the problem. [0]https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-enc...