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> This cast doubt on the long-established view that life was made possible when organisms started producing oxygen via photosynthesis, which requires sunlight,

by coriny 2y ago

> This cast doubt on the long-established view that life was made possible when organisms started producing oxygen via photosynthesis, which requires sunlight, about 2.7 billion years ago. So ... life began because it started producing oxygen via photosynthesis? I think they oopsed the word "multicellular" or "complex". A low-grade article and a long shot of a theory, but maybe not impossible.

brabel 2y ago
Yeah... it seems to me that this kind of circular reasoning has become widely acceptable by people lately, they seem to lack some basic understanding of logic or something. Sometimes, it works, like when there's a feedback loop and X causes Y which makes X stronger, causing more of Y... but in this case, they're saying "organisms (literally life) started producing oxygen, which originated life". I would agree with you they mean "originated complex life" but they repeat the claim later: "Deep-sea discovery calls into question the origins of life," the Scottish Association for Marine Science said...".
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  It’s thought that the most common habitable environment in the universe is in underground oceans which are generic in outer solar system and probably interstellar bodies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_oceanography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_oceanography It’s easy to believe you could get bacteria in that kind of place with an ecosystem like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent but without energy input from sunlight it is hard to believe you could get more complex organisms or ecosystems, but if you had some oxygen from chemistry that might make a difference.
  - knowitnone 2y ago
    "but without energy input from sunlight it is hard to believe you could get more complex organisms or ecosystems" Where did you pull this from? Why couldn't complex organisms form without sunlight?
  - wongarsu 2y ago
    Earth is a glowing ball of magma and semi-liquid stone, with a tiny solid crust where it has cooled off. There is plenty of energy there in heat, nuclear decay, elements that could chemically react and release energy, etc. On this sun-blasted surface life that uses sunlight can outcompete anything that doesn't use it. But that doesn't mean those other energy sources aren't viable on their own
- dsign 2y ago
  Some editors want to simplify everything a lot. I can heard the hypothetical editor in this case: "aerobic life" -> "what's aerobic? Too complicated Joe. I'm gonna red-pen it. Write just 'life'. See? Better, right? Now, Joe, does everybody know that organisms are clumps of church organs? Maybe you want to put a footnote somewhere?"

by coriny 2y ago

brabel 2y ago

Yeah... it seems to me that this kind of circular reasoning has become widely acceptable by people lately, they seem to lack some basic understanding of logic or something. Sometimes, it works, like when there's a feedback loop and X causes Y which makes X stronger, causing more of Y... but in this case, they're saying "organisms (literally life) started producing oxygen, which originated life". I would agree with you they mean "originated complex life" but they repeat the claim later: "Deep-sea discovery calls into question the origins of life," the Scottish Association for Marine Science said...".

PaulHoule 2y ago
It’s thought that the most common habitable environment in the universe is in underground oceans which are generic in outer solar system and probably interstellar bodies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_oceanography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_oceanography It’s easy to believe you could get bacteria in that kind of place with an ecosystem like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent but without energy input from sunlight it is hard to believe you could get more complex organisms or ecosystems, but if you had some oxygen from chemistry that might make a difference.
- knowitnone 2y ago
  "but without energy input from sunlight it is hard to believe you could get more complex organisms or ecosystems" Where did you pull this from? Why couldn't complex organisms form without sunlight?
- wongarsu 2y ago
  Earth is a glowing ball of magma and semi-liquid stone, with a tiny solid crust where it has cooled off. There is plenty of energy there in heat, nuclear decay, elements that could chemically react and release energy, etc. On this sun-blasted surface life that uses sunlight can outcompete anything that doesn't use it. But that doesn't mean those other energy sources aren't viable on their own
dsign 2y ago
Some editors want to simplify everything a lot. I can heard the hypothetical editor in this case: "aerobic life" -> "what's aerobic? Too complicated Joe. I'm gonna red-pen it. Write just 'life'. See? Better, right? Now, Joe, does everybody know that organisms are clumps of church organs? Maybe you want to put a footnote somewhere?"