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Every time I see a fossil fuel car sitting outside my son’s nursery, engine idling, spewing out huge amounts of poisonous fumes (23 shipping containers worth ev

by cbeach 2y ago

Every time I see a fossil fuel car sitting outside my son’s nursery, engine idling, spewing out huge amounts of poisonous fumes (23 shipping containers worth every five minutes), I’m thankful that we’re transitioning to EVs. Yes, there are problems, but many of the points made in the above post are dubious to say the least. I’ve had my EV for five years and the brakes are still pristine (regenerative braking saves mechanical brake wear). So I don’t buy that particulate pollution is higher in EVs. 50 companies solving the same problem? That’s GREAT! More scope for competition and innovation. Or would you rather ever drove Soviet Lada cars? Car costs are being driven down and we’re nearly at the tipping point where EVs are cheaper than fossil fuelled cars - which is surprising as EVs are better in nearly every single way. We have continent-wide defacto standards for chargers. Ideally it would be worldwide, but really, this is a trivial concern. You talk about mining (lithium I assume) as a concern, but that’s probably better overall than the huge environmental toll of oil extraction, transport, refinement and exhaust emission. This isn’t the time to let perfect be the enemy of good. Get onboard with the transition and we will make progress. Progress is good.

lm28469 2y ago
> Progress is good. "progress" is exactly why we are where we are today... Electric cars just perpetuates the same cycle, the only way out is a complete redesign of the system. Personal ownership of 2500kg hunks of metal to transport your lazy 70kg ass isn't anywhere close to sustainable. I bike everyday, and everyday I witness the same thing, hundreds and hundreds of cars, most are empty waiting on a parking spot, 90% of the rest are occupied by a single person, usually stuck in a traffic jam. EVs or not that's just pure madness and misallocation of resources. You're moving the needle 0.1mm backwards when we need to go back a good 720 degrees. But of course it's much nicer to have trailing dams in a country the average american can't place on a map than having a car idle in front of _your_ school
- dastbe 2y ago
  720 degrees is spinning in circles and ending up pointed right back where you started.
- cbeach 2y ago
  It's nice that you manage to live a simple life that doesn't require a car, but I assure you it's 100% necessary for me: * busy family of four with two young kids, both in different childcare settings * the UK climate * bulk shopping that is impossible to transport by bike, including heavy DIY stuff etc * transporting relatives etc * hospital visits (the UK NHS Ambulance service is basically unusable at this point. They didn't even come out to pick up my elderly nan after she fell down her stairs and was in an immobile heap on the ground for hours) * visiting relatives that are not readily accessible by public transport I have a driveway, so my car consumes no public space unless it's actively being driven, or parked for a short time in a car park. I feel the cycling / "active travel" advocacy movement is currently engaging in an ideological war against motorists - this is evident in the dreadful zero-sum policy making that's going on throughout the UK at the moment - road narrowing, model filters, "low traffic neighbourhoods" etc, which aim to change people's behaviour by artificially making life harder for motorists. However, what these ideologues don't understand is that busy families, elderly and disabled people absolutely rely on cars, and we will not be bullied into giving them up.
michpoch 2y ago
> I’ve had my EV for five years and the brakes are still pristine (regenerative braking saves mechanical brake wear) What did you expect? I have original brakes with original brakepads in my 5 years old ICE van. I have original brakes (pads, rotors) in my 2016 motorhome. > Every time I see a fossil fuel car sitting outside my son’s nursery, engine idling Sure, so how much better do you think EVs are in that matter? 10%? 30%? The solution is to stop using individual transport, not to make it slightly better.
- triceratops 2y ago
  > The solution is to stop using individual transport, not to make it slightly better You're saying knocking down and rebuilding millions of units of suburban housing into dense apartment buildings will emit less emissions than driving EVs?
  - michpoch 2y ago
    They need to be knocked out anyway because they're using fossil fuels or high amount of electricity for heating / cooling. You change the planning rules and things change over time. We're not destroying peoples cars to replace them with EVs. There's no tech we have currently that would work when people need to drive every day. You not only have fuel, you got tyres, you got the roads you need to maintain. Let's fix this at the core.
    - triceratops 2y ago
      > We're not destroying peoples cars to replace them with EVs. Exactly. So what's the problem with switching to EVs as ICE cars wear out and die? > You change the planning rules and things change over time. And keep burning gasoline in ICEs until all the single-family homes are replaced with apartment buildings? > You not only have fuel, you got tyres, you got the roads you need to maintain Even in a world where most people take public transport, you'll need roads and tires. Buses and taxis and bicycles need roads and tires. Delivery trucks need roads and tires.
- cbeach 2y ago

by cbeach 2y ago

lm28469 2y ago

> Progress is good. "progress" is exactly why we are where we are today... Electric cars just perpetuates the same cycle, the only way out is a complete redesign of the system. Personal ownership of 2500kg hunks of metal to transport your lazy 70kg ass isn't anywhere close to sustainable. I bike everyday, and everyday I witness the same thing, hundreds and hundreds of cars, most are empty waiting on a parking spot, 90% of the rest are occupied by a single person, usually stuck in a traffic jam. EVs or not that's just pure madness and misallocation of resources. You're moving the needle 0.1mm backwards when we need to go back a good 720 degrees. But of course it's much nicer to have trailing dams in a country the average american can't place on a map than having a car idle in front of _your_ school

dastbe 2y ago
720 degrees is spinning in circles and ending up pointed right back where you started.
cbeach 2y ago
It's nice that you manage to live a simple life that doesn't require a car, but I assure you it's 100% necessary for me: * busy family of four with two young kids, both in different childcare settings * the UK climate * bulk shopping that is impossible to transport by bike, including heavy DIY stuff etc * transporting relatives etc * hospital visits (the UK NHS Ambulance service is basically unusable at this point. They didn't even come out to pick up my elderly nan after she fell down her stairs and was in an immobile heap on the ground for hours) * visiting relatives that are not readily accessible by public transport I have a driveway, so my car consumes no public space unless it's actively being driven, or parked for a short time in a car park. I feel the cycling / "active travel" advocacy movement is currently engaging in an ideological war against motorists - this is evident in the dreadful zero-sum policy making that's going on throughout the UK at the moment - road narrowing, model filters, "low traffic neighbourhoods" etc, which aim to change people's behaviour by artificially making life harder for motorists. However, what these ideologues don't understand is that busy families, elderly and disabled people absolutely rely on cars, and we will not be bullied into giving them up.

michpoch 2y ago

> I’ve had my EV for five years and the brakes are still pristine (regenerative braking saves mechanical brake wear) What did you expect? I have original brakes with original brakepads in my 5 years old ICE van. I have original brakes (pads, rotors) in my 2016 motorhome. > Every time I see a fossil fuel car sitting outside my son’s nursery, engine idling Sure, so how much better do you think EVs are in that matter? 10%? 30%? The solution is to stop using individual transport, not to make it slightly better.

triceratops 2y ago
> The solution is to stop using individual transport, not to make it slightly better You're saying knocking down and rebuilding millions of units of suburban housing into dense apartment buildings will emit less emissions than driving EVs?
- michpoch 2y ago
  They need to be knocked out anyway because they're using fossil fuels or high amount of electricity for heating / cooling. You change the planning rules and things change over time. We're not destroying peoples cars to replace them with EVs. There's no tech we have currently that would work when people need to drive every day. You not only have fuel, you got tyres, you got the roads you need to maintain. Let's fix this at the core.
  - triceratops 2y ago
    > We're not destroying peoples cars to replace them with EVs. Exactly. So what's the problem with switching to EVs as ICE cars wear out and die? > You change the planning rules and things change over time. And keep burning gasoline in ICEs until all the single-family homes are replaced with apartment buildings? > You not only have fuel, you got tyres, you got the roads you need to maintain Even in a world where most people take public transport, you'll need roads and tires. Buses and taxis and bicycles need roads and tires. Delivery trucks need roads and tires.
cbeach 2y ago