3 ms·

Was just wondering that myself.. why they went with "rule" in `column-rule` and now `row-rule`

by bung 2y ago

karlshea 2y ago
It should be familiar from the <hr> tag (horizontal rule).
krispyfi 2y ago
> From Middle English reule, rewle, rule, borrowed from Old French riule, reule, from Latin regula (“straight stick, bar, ruler, pattern”), from regō (“to keep straight, direct, govern, rule”), ultimately from Proto-Indo-European h₃réǵeti (“to straighten; right”), from the root h₃reǵ-; see regent. Doublet of rail, regal, regula and rigol. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/rule#English https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/rule#English
- pacifika 2y ago
  Thanks that's helpful to know they picked a valid term, but if I'd hold a no-context poll (unless I mention ruler) a significant number of people wouldn't know this.
  - blooalien 2y ago
    > ... a significant number of people wouldn't know this. While true, an even more significant number of folks into typography and design absolutely would (and arguably even should) know this.
  - hnlmorg 2y ago
    How many of those people would know what CSS is though? Or understand the distinction between "internet" and "web"? Heck, a lot of people don't even understand the distinction between "wifi" and "internet" let alone anything actually technical. I do get your point and can honestly relate to it. But I wouldn't argue that a no-context poll is the right way to define specialist jargon.
  - None4U 2y ago
    There's already an element <hr> "horizontal rule" in HTML
  - setr 2y ago
    Choosing terminology without context is probably a terrible idea in general; you’re basically forcing everything to fit that “describe complex topics like I’m a toddler” framework, which is terribly inefficient for any non-novice practitioner in the subject. The more important aspect is that, within the context, it’s internally consistent. If I bother to learn my terms, I’ll be able to utilize it functionally. And of course, that the term can actually be explained
- Joker_vD 2y ago
  Couldn't they have at least used the word "ruler" then?
  - Sharlin 2y ago
    No, because a ruler is completely different from a rule.
    - Joker_vD 2y ago
      No? Both "rule" and "ruler" can denote this thing also called straightedge; but the word "ruler" is more commonly used in this sense, while "rule" generally means an instruction.
      - 9dev 2y ago
        Isn't a ruler a measuring device to measure a rule?
      - Sharlin 2y ago
        But here the meaning of "rule" is not "straightedge", but rather the derived meaning "a thin printed line or dash". So "ruler" would be improper because that word doesn't have the typographical meaning.
        Joker_vD 2y ago
        Wait, so the "ruler guides" are misnamed, they are just "rules"? In any case, the things they added could very well have been called "column-divider" and "row-divider" with much less ambiguity because not everyone who has to wrangle with CSS is a designer by profession or by choice.
        cstrahan 2y ago
        If I understand what you’re referring to, then I suspect you’re mistaken about the names you’re referring to. I presume you’re talking about a feature like this: https://tagboard.com/product/guides-and-remote-refresh-capabilities/ https://tagboard.com/product/guides-and-remote-refresh-capab... In page layout software, the thin UI elements bordering the left side and top side of the page, with the little tick marks, is called a ruler. The tick marks on the ruler are called rules (just like the rules on a physical ruler used for measuring things). When you click/drag on the ruler elements, you create guides (or guidelines). I’ve never seen “ruler guides” verbatim, but I would take that to be shorthand for “guides one could create using the ruler” (which would be a mouthful) to disambiguate the word “guide” when there isn’t sufficient context for the reader to likely understand what was meant. The guides themselves are not rulers.
Telemakhos 2y ago
It’s the correct term from the technical vocabulary of book layout and printing. A rule is a line separating things on a page, while a border is a box.[0]. While the term originates in book printing shops, native English speakers would recognize it most easily from the terms “standard ruled” and “college ruled” as applied to loose-leaf notebook paper, describing the faint blue, printed horizontal lines providing guidance for straight handwriting.[1] [0] https://practicaltypography.com/rules-and-borders.html https://practicaltypography.com/rules-and-borders.html [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruled_paper https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruled_paper
- moomin 2y ago
  I remember this argument from the 90s where large numbers of people were upset at having to learn the world "Font". What it came down to was, either you use the correct existing term, or you create a new term and end up with constant conflict between the two. These days everyone knows what a font is.
  - Sharlin 2y ago
    Funnily the word "font" is in fact now used in digital publishing for what is more properly called "typeface". In traditional typesetting "font" refers to one specific size, weight and style of a typeface. That is, Helvetica is a typeface, Helvetica Light Oblique 12pt is a font.
    - Eric_WVGG 2y ago
      ^ this These days nobody knows what a font is.
      - codetrotter 2y ago
        I only know because a friend of mine studied design at the university. Seems fine to me, it’s a fun piece of trivia for me that I am happy my friend told me. And at the same time, I don’t feel cheated for not having learned it myself in my education as mine was not in design :p Also it does open up a neat avenue for designers to troll people if they are feeling mischievous. Client: “This looks great, but could we try a different font?” Designer: “Sure thing!” Designer bumps size from 12pt to 14pt. Designer: “There you go – different font!” :^)
bfgeek 2y ago
Part of the design constraint here is to reuse the existing properties that exist for multi-column layout which have existed for a long time - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/column-rule https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/column-rule This proposal extends this mechanism to be more general.

Was just wondering that myself.. why they went with "rule" in `column-rule` and now `row-rule`

by bung 2y ago

Was just wondering that myself.. why they went with "rule" in `column-rule` and now `row-rule`

karlshea 2y ago

It should be familiar from the <hr> tag (horizontal rule).

krispyfi 2y ago

> From Middle English reule, rewle, rule, borrowed from Old French riule, reule, from Latin regula (“straight stick, bar, ruler, pattern”), from regō (“to keep straight, direct, govern, rule”), ultimately from Proto-Indo-European h₃réǵeti (“to straighten; right”), from the root h₃reǵ-; see regent. Doublet of rail, regal, regula and rigol. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/rule#English https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/rule#English

pacifika 2y ago
Thanks that's helpful to know they picked a valid term, but if I'd hold a no-context poll (unless I mention ruler) a significant number of people wouldn't know this.
- blooalien 2y ago
  > ... a significant number of people wouldn't know this. While true, an even more significant number of folks into typography and design absolutely would (and arguably even should) know this.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  How many of those people would know what CSS is though? Or understand the distinction between "internet" and "web"? Heck, a lot of people don't even understand the distinction between "wifi" and "internet" let alone anything actually technical. I do get your point and can honestly relate to it. But I wouldn't argue that a no-context poll is the right way to define specialist jargon.
- None4U 2y ago
  There's already an element <hr> "horizontal rule" in HTML
- setr 2y ago
  Choosing terminology without context is probably a terrible idea in general; you’re basically forcing everything to fit that “describe complex topics like I’m a toddler” framework, which is terribly inefficient for any non-novice practitioner in the subject. The more important aspect is that, within the context, it’s internally consistent. If I bother to learn my terms, I’ll be able to utilize it functionally. And of course, that the term can actually be explained
Joker_vD 2y ago
Couldn't they have at least used the word "ruler" then?
- Sharlin 2y ago
  No, because a ruler is completely different from a rule.
  - Joker_vD 2y ago
    No? Both "rule" and "ruler" can denote this thing also called straightedge; but the word "ruler" is more commonly used in this sense, while "rule" generally means an instruction.
    - 9dev 2y ago
      Isn't a ruler a measuring device to measure a rule?
    - Sharlin 2y ago
      But here the meaning of "rule" is not "straightedge", but rather the derived meaning "a thin printed line or dash". So "ruler" would be improper because that word doesn't have the typographical meaning.
      - Joker_vD 2y ago
        Wait, so the "ruler guides" are misnamed, they are just "rules"? In any case, the things they added could very well have been called "column-divider" and "row-divider" with much less ambiguity because not everyone who has to wrangle with CSS is a designer by profession or by choice.
        cstrahan 2y ago
        If I understand what you’re referring to, then I suspect you’re mistaken about the names you’re referring to. I presume you’re talking about a feature like this: https://tagboard.com/product/guides-and-remote-refresh-capabilities/ https://tagboard.com/product/guides-and-remote-refresh-capab... In page layout software, the thin UI elements bordering the left side and top side of the page, with the little tick marks, is called a ruler. The tick marks on the ruler are called rules (just like the rules on a physical ruler used for measuring things). When you click/drag on the ruler elements, you create guides (or guidelines). I’ve never seen “ruler guides” verbatim, but I would take that to be shorthand for “guides one could create using the ruler” (which would be a mouthful) to disambiguate the word “guide” when there isn’t sufficient context for the reader to likely understand what was meant. The guides themselves are not rulers.

Telemakhos 2y ago

It’s the correct term from the technical vocabulary of book layout and printing. A rule is a line separating things on a page, while a border is a box.[0]. While the term originates in book printing shops, native English speakers would recognize it most easily from the terms “standard ruled” and “college ruled” as applied to loose-leaf notebook paper, describing the faint blue, printed horizontal lines providing guidance for straight handwriting.[1] [0] https://practicaltypography.com/rules-and-borders.html https://practicaltypography.com/rules-and-borders.html [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruled_paper https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruled_paper

moomin 2y ago
I remember this argument from the 90s where large numbers of people were upset at having to learn the world "Font". What it came down to was, either you use the correct existing term, or you create a new term and end up with constant conflict between the two. These days everyone knows what a font is.
- Sharlin 2y ago
  Funnily the word "font" is in fact now used in digital publishing for what is more properly called "typeface". In traditional typesetting "font" refers to one specific size, weight and style of a typeface. That is, Helvetica is a typeface, Helvetica Light Oblique 12pt is a font.
  - Eric_WVGG 2y ago
    ^ this These days nobody knows what a font is.
    - codetrotter 2y ago
      I only know because a friend of mine studied design at the university. Seems fine to me, it’s a fun piece of trivia for me that I am happy my friend told me. And at the same time, I don’t feel cheated for not having learned it myself in my education as mine was not in design :p Also it does open up a neat avenue for designers to troll people if they are feeling mischievous. Client: “This looks great, but could we try a different font?” Designer: “Sure thing!” Designer bumps size from 12pt to 14pt. Designer: “There you go – different font!” :^)

bfgeek 2y ago

Part of the design constraint here is to reuse the existing properties that exist for multi-column layout which have existed for a long time - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/column-rule https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/column-rule This proposal extends this mechanism to be more general.