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Still, we’ve got a little while to go before star formation can no longer occur. Some estimates put the star formation period from 1 to 100 trillion years. I’

Still, we’ve got a little while to go before star formation can no longer occur. Some estimates put the star formation period from 1 to 100 trillion years. I’d be more concerned about our collision course with the Andromeda Galaxy in four to five billion years.

nkrisc 2y ago
Like two gas clouds colliding, not like two cars colliding.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  like two flammable gas clouds colliding perhaps. Literally one of the most energetic processes in the known universe, with 100x the rate of star formation.
  - nkrisc 2y ago
    True, but what I meant is it’s not like all the existing stars are going to collide and be blasted to bits.
beeforpork 2y ago
Why would you be concerned? Earth and everything living on it will be long dead by then, and probably gone and swallowed by the sun. And maybe the Sun dies before that, too. So what would be particularly concerning about merging of our galaxy with another one?
- Timwi 2y ago
  > Earth and everything living on it will be long dead by then How do you know? It's not far fetched to think that, if humans don't go extinct in the meantime, they will continue to find ways to shape the world according to their needs. By the time the Sun goes red giant, we may well have found a way to alter the orbit of Earth. By the time the Sun goes supernova, we may be able to move to another star. Who knows. But let's not get distracted. We need to tackle climate change first. That's our first self-made extinction challenge.
  - beeforpork 2y ago
    > How do you know? Hmm, yes, I don't. I just honestly don't get why that galaxy collision is concerning. What's the concern? For whom? Four billion years is very, very long compared to humankind's evolutional history. Homo may be 2 My old, that's 1% of the time it takes the sun to rotate a single time around the center of the galaxy. Sol completed already ~20 rotations since it exists. Homo's whole history is 1/2000th the time ntil Andromeda will arrive. So, what's the concern? Humankind will not exist for many, many hundreds of millions of years. > It's not far fetched to think that, they will continue to find ways to shape the world according to their needs. Humans fixing Earth's and Humanity's problems is totally out of character. I did not even consider it. Earth's death is certain. Sun's death is certain. Galaxy collision might even go unnoticed for quite a while -- it's not like millions of stars would crash into each other -- very unlikely. It's more like a reshaping, but what's concerning about that? More supernovas around us? Yeah, maybe. But why is it more concerning that any other demise? It is an interesting question, I think, about perceived danger.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      I wish there way to stop this bus and let all of the edgy nihilists off. They said more concerning than the end of star formation. That doesn't mean they are losing sleep over it.
      - beeforpork 2y ago
        :-) Existence, universe, galactic processes and time scales are very fascinating. I do loose sleep over it, but because it is impossible to grasp, so marvellous and unlikely. And it is treated like shit by too many of my fellow earthlings. My worries are much closer and much more concrete than a galaxy collision, and I think much more urgent.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > How do you know? It's not far fetched to think that, if humans don't go extinct in the meantime, they will continue to find ways to shape the world according to their needs. I'd say it's pretty far-fetched to imagine humans caring about things 7 generations into the future, let alone 3e7 generations. > By the time the Sun goes red giant, we may well have found a way to alter the orbit of Earth. By the time the Sun goes supernova, we may be able to move to another star. Who knows. We already know how to meaningfully alter Earth's orbit over such timescales[0], the sun won't go super-nova anyway (too small)[1], and we know what it would take to increase its lifetime by a few orders of magnitude even if organising ourselves on the numerical and time scales required is beyond us[2]. But even maximally extending the lifespan of Sol would take us to perhaps 100 trillion years if we're very lucky, and that's if we actually engage in the exact kind of long-term thinking that people currently criticise the Longtermism movement for even daring to consider. [0] https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0102126 https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0102126 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova#Core_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova#Core_collapse [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_lifting#Stellar_husbandry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_lifting#Stellar_husbandry
Sharlin 2y ago
The collision probably won't do much more than trigger a period of star formation – although that will be accompanied by an increase in supernova frequency as the most massive of the newly-born stars quickly burn out in mere millions of years.

nkrisc 2y ago

Like two gas clouds colliding, not like two cars colliding.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
like two flammable gas clouds colliding perhaps. Literally one of the most energetic processes in the known universe, with 100x the rate of star formation.
- nkrisc 2y ago
  True, but what I meant is it’s not like all the existing stars are going to collide and be blasted to bits.

beeforpork 2y ago

Why would you be concerned? Earth and everything living on it will be long dead by then, and probably gone and swallowed by the sun. And maybe the Sun dies before that, too. So what would be particularly concerning about merging of our galaxy with another one?

Timwi 2y ago
> Earth and everything living on it will be long dead by then How do you know? It's not far fetched to think that, if humans don't go extinct in the meantime, they will continue to find ways to shape the world according to their needs. By the time the Sun goes red giant, we may well have found a way to alter the orbit of Earth. By the time the Sun goes supernova, we may be able to move to another star. Who knows. But let's not get distracted. We need to tackle climate change first. That's our first self-made extinction challenge.
- beeforpork 2y ago
  > How do you know? Hmm, yes, I don't. I just honestly don't get why that galaxy collision is concerning. What's the concern? For whom? Four billion years is very, very long compared to humankind's evolutional history. Homo may be 2 My old, that's 1% of the time it takes the sun to rotate a single time around the center of the galaxy. Sol completed already ~20 rotations since it exists. Homo's whole history is 1/2000th the time ntil Andromeda will arrive. So, what's the concern? Humankind will not exist for many, many hundreds of millions of years. > It's not far fetched to think that, they will continue to find ways to shape the world according to their needs. Humans fixing Earth's and Humanity's problems is totally out of character. I did not even consider it. Earth's death is certain. Sun's death is certain. Galaxy collision might even go unnoticed for quite a while -- it's not like millions of stars would crash into each other -- very unlikely. It's more like a reshaping, but what's concerning about that? More supernovas around us? Yeah, maybe. But why is it more concerning that any other demise? It is an interesting question, I think, about perceived danger.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I wish there way to stop this bus and let all of the edgy nihilists off. They said more concerning than the end of star formation. That doesn't mean they are losing sleep over it.
    - beeforpork 2y ago
      :-) Existence, universe, galactic processes and time scales are very fascinating. I do loose sleep over it, but because it is impossible to grasp, so marvellous and unlikely. And it is treated like shit by too many of my fellow earthlings. My worries are much closer and much more concrete than a galaxy collision, and I think much more urgent.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > How do you know? It's not far fetched to think that, if humans don't go extinct in the meantime, they will continue to find ways to shape the world according to their needs. I'd say it's pretty far-fetched to imagine humans caring about things 7 generations into the future, let alone 3e7 generations. > By the time the Sun goes red giant, we may well have found a way to alter the orbit of Earth. By the time the Sun goes supernova, we may be able to move to another star. Who knows. We already know how to meaningfully alter Earth's orbit over such timescales[0], the sun won't go super-nova anyway (too small)[1], and we know what it would take to increase its lifetime by a few orders of magnitude even if organising ourselves on the numerical and time scales required is beyond us[2]. But even maximally extending the lifespan of Sol would take us to perhaps 100 trillion years if we're very lucky, and that's if we actually engage in the exact kind of long-term thinking that people currently criticise the Longtermism movement for even daring to consider. [0] https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0102126 https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0102126 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova#Core_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova#Core_collapse [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_lifting#Stellar_husbandry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_lifting#Stellar_husbandry

Sharlin 2y ago

The collision probably won't do much more than trigger a period of star formation – although that will be accompanied by an increase in supernova frequency as the most massive of the newly-born stars quickly burn out in mere millions of years.