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Could The USA go down in history as the empire that voluntarily gave up it's dominance. Pretty fascinating. It's like if Rome had a referendum to just leave th

Could The USA go down in history as the empire that voluntarily gave up it's dominance. Pretty fascinating. It's like if Rome had a referendum to just leave the world stage and the majority of voters said, "great idea". Nearly every other case in history seems to involve some type of military failure. I guess there is a chance that in the future, people might say the USA's information space was invaded and so it fell victim to propaganda. Time will tell.

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jiggawatts 2y ago
The voters in both the Roman Empire and the United States are content with bread and circuses.
- bamboozled 2y ago
  It's true but Rome was under constant physical attack and that was part of what caused the actual downfall. I guess we could say The USA and probably the broader democratic world is under information attacks.
- acdha 2y ago
  That phrase is darker and, alas, more apt than commonly understood: https://acoup.blog/2024/12/20/collections-on-bread-and-circuses/ https://acoup.blog/2024/12/20/collections-on-bread-and-circu...
llm_nerd 2y ago
Trump in I believe last night's interview with Fox (guy seems to do these daily, repeating the same lies and nonsense night after night, so it's tough to know if it's new or not) complained that every other country had "raped and pillaged" the United States. Imagine being on top of the world, the richest large country on the planet, and declaring that really you're the victim. There is a fundamental blindness to realize that all of these things are not givens, and that things can get much, much, much worse. And they are going to get much worse. And Trump's approval rating will probably dip to 45%. The US has committed to the bit of being a modern idiocracy that just like the excitement of "oh boy, what hijinx is he going to do today???"
- bamboozled 2y ago
  It's a self fulfilling prophecy isn't it? The USA will likely become a victim of it's own cruelty, stupid policies and nonsense and then his voter base will actually agree with him even more. They will truly feel like they were hard done by and lap up the BS even more. Which will be scary because it will reach biblical levels of worship if it already hasn't. Going to be wild.
- jmye 2y ago
  > Imagine being on top of the world, the richest large country on the planet, and declaring that really you're the victim. This is their long term MO. Their voters are, largely, aggrieved white men, who have been told they’re the victims of women like, having jobs and making dating decisions. Their politicians are perpetual victims of “mean” or “nasty” opposition. Their policies will fix all your problems, that we’re all caused by the other team. Everything is grievance and made-up victimhood. 80m people absolutely eat it up.
- throw0101b 2y ago
  > Imagine being on top of the world, the richest large country on the planet, and declaring that really you're the victim. An observation by Umberto Eco in his essay Ur-Fascism: > 8. The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy. * https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism The possible 'validity' of the US being a victim would be NATO allies not spending want they promised, 2% of GDP. But folks like Vance are going after even Poland at times, who is spending more per GDP than even the US in recent years.
  - 2y ago
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jiggawatts 2y ago

The voters in both the Roman Empire and the United States are content with bread and circuses.

bamboozled 2y ago
It's true but Rome was under constant physical attack and that was part of what caused the actual downfall. I guess we could say The USA and probably the broader democratic world is under information attacks.
acdha 2y ago
That phrase is darker and, alas, more apt than commonly understood: https://acoup.blog/2024/12/20/collections-on-bread-and-circuses/ https://acoup.blog/2024/12/20/collections-on-bread-and-circu...

llm_nerd 2y ago

Trump in I believe last night's interview with Fox (guy seems to do these daily, repeating the same lies and nonsense night after night, so it's tough to know if it's new or not) complained that every other country had "raped and pillaged" the United States. Imagine being on top of the world, the richest large country on the planet, and declaring that really you're the victim. There is a fundamental blindness to realize that all of these things are not givens, and that things can get much, much, much worse. And they are going to get much worse. And Trump's approval rating will probably dip to 45%. The US has committed to the bit of being a modern idiocracy that just like the excitement of "oh boy, what hijinx is he going to do today???"

bamboozled 2y ago
It's a self fulfilling prophecy isn't it? The USA will likely become a victim of it's own cruelty, stupid policies and nonsense and then his voter base will actually agree with him even more. They will truly feel like they were hard done by and lap up the BS even more. Which will be scary because it will reach biblical levels of worship if it already hasn't. Going to be wild.
jmye 2y ago
> Imagine being on top of the world, the richest large country on the planet, and declaring that really you're the victim. This is their long term MO. Their voters are, largely, aggrieved white men, who have been told they’re the victims of women like, having jobs and making dating decisions. Their politicians are perpetual victims of “mean” or “nasty” opposition. Their policies will fix all your problems, that we’re all caused by the other team. Everything is grievance and made-up victimhood. 80m people absolutely eat it up.
throw0101b 2y ago
> Imagine being on top of the world, the richest large country on the planet, and declaring that really you're the victim. An observation by Umberto Eco in his essay Ur-Fascism: > 8. The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy. * https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism The possible 'validity' of the US being a victim would be NATO allies not spending want they promised, 2% of GDP. But folks like Vance are going after even Poland at times, who is spending more per GDP than even the US in recent years.
- 2y ago

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