4 ms·

> yet sad Doesn't everyone want to touch grass or have decent access to fresh air and sunlight? I guess if we could hypothetically build really cheap apartmen

> yet sad Doesn't everyone want to touch grass or have decent access to fresh air and sunlight? I guess if we could hypothetically build really cheap apartments deep underground, it would be sad if people didn't want to live there?

guhwhut 2y ago
[dead]
- h0l0cube 2y ago
  > Your straw man here is absurd. I've lived in an apartment for a few years, and those were issues for me. The stumbling block of having to wait for an elevator and walk across roads to get to a park was enough to stop me from going. It's not the same as simply walking outside the door. Other apartment buildings blocked out natural light, even onto the park, and I had just a view to one side of the building. All this in a city that had terrible weather to begin with.
  - oblio 2y ago
    HackerNews, the bastion of logic. First of all, not having the energy to wait for an elevator (!!!) and walk across roads to get to a park sounds like depression. I hope that it was checked out. Or hey, maybe it was just the living circumstances but usually it's a complex thing, having to do with loneliness and general life issues. Secondly, urban environments are very varied outside the US. In Europe the most frequent apartment buildings are mid rises, 4-6 stories high, which can make for incredible environments. Shops everywhere, life everywhere. People going about their business, easy access to everything. Thirdly, that "touch grass" argument is ridiculous, even in the US. 90% of front and backyards I've seen are... just grass. I don't know if it's due to people or HOA being cheap or regulations, but there's a dearth of shrubs, hedges, trees, general greenery. You know, the type of green stuff that makes life worth living, not just sterile, manicured lawns. And those are exactly the things that aren't missing in most urban parks. Yes, you have to share the space, and that's fine. In most places not overrun by homeless people and drug addicts (much bigger problems in the US than in most other developed countries), parks are just lovely. And in many places multiple apartment buildings share the same common backyard, which is a lot larger than what a single family home in a suburb will have, and that will be a semi-private mini park, just for residents. Behaving like it's crazy for people to want to live in apartments, globally, is truly sad. Apartments don't require as much maintenance. They can offer nicer views, especially higher up. They are generally in walkable and bikeable areas with easy access to everything... The benefits are innumerable, especially for kids or the elderly. Edit: Oh, North America is particularly dastardly, for a developed region, in creating urban hell landscapes. I tried walking from the Las Vegas Strip to Downtown Las Vegas. I took the monorail to the end and then figured I'd walk the remaining distance, which is not huge (something like 4km). I turned around after about 20 minutes, even though the weather was awesome. It's incredibly how such wealth can create environment were an average person outside of a car is constantly under assault from noise, pollution, bad sidewalks full of debris, glass, etc. and the environment is so barren and devoid of beauty.
    - h0l0cube 2y ago
      > HackerNews, the bastion of logic. > First of all, not having the energy to wait for an elevator (!!!) and walk across roads to get to a park sounds like depression. I hope that it was checked out. HackerNews, the bastion of decorum. To use your unqualified depression diagnosis as a rhetorical device (let's be honest, this was not a sincere display of concern), is gobsmacking. And I'm sure you said this after pushing the downvote button with great moral conviction, surely because of concern for your fellow human being. Anyway, it's incredibly presumptuous that you'd think I didn't visit the outside world regularly. But certainly, living in a shoebox can be a recipe for depression, which can cause people to withdraw from the world. You're no doubt aware of hikikomori, a mental illness, strangely enough, most prevalent in one of the most dense population centers in the world. > In Europe the most frequent apartment buildings are mid rises, 4-6 stories high, which can make for incredible environments. Are you writing the brochure? I know what low-rises are. And I'll agree they're better than skyscrapers. The european ones in particular have central staircases instead of fire escapes, which is great, because the lifts are usually ancient, broken, and cramped. You'll get decent light, because zoning restrictions keep building heights within limits. You still won't get decent air flow, but they are sometimes passively ventilated owing to the age of the building. This is of course nothing like the sad cheap crap that's built today in modern city. But dream on about the rustic Parisian apartment. Have you at least lived an apartment lifestyle full-time for a few years, or is this just coming from your speculation of what it's like? If it's just speculation, please spare me.
      - oblio 2y ago
        > Have you at least lived an apartment lifestyle full-time for a few years, or is this just coming from your speculation of what it's like? If it's just speculation, please spare me. I've lived my entire lifetime in apartments, ranging from Eastern European panel blocks to ultra modern high energy efficiency ones. Heck, if we go the "spare me" arrogant route, based on my experience with apartments I can probably show you a thing or two (or two hundred...). I haven't even downvoted you, because I can't. It's some sort of HN mechanism. I'm fairly sure you're the one that downvoted my original comment, though. As usual for any type of housing, you need to choose where you live. Claiming that everyone wants to live in a single family house is, again, just sad. Single family houses in walkable and bikeable areas with easy access to daycares, kindergartens, schools, corner stores, super markets, pharmacies, coffee shops, cinemas, theatres, ... are insanely expensive and most people can't afford them, so the only relevant comparison is between: Single family houses in suburbs versus medium sized apartments in urban areas. In most of the rest of the world you can pay comparable rent (or comparable purchase price) for a decent apartment in a mid-to-high density area versus a decent house in a suburban area. > is gobsmacking So was your comment. You attacked my initial generic comment with a purely personal and emotional personal perspective. I think in real life terms it would be akin to what's called "emotional blackmail" ("look how hard it was for me in an apartment with bad weather" - WTF, did the apartment cause the bad weather?!!?? :-)))))) ). Anyway, this is useless. * * * Again, some people prefer to live in houses, some prefer to live in apartments. Both should be built to decent standards and no one should enforce most others to live in one single type (Europe is better than the US in this regard, in the US basically everyone is forced to live in single family houses in suburbs - something crazy like 80% of buildable land is legally zoned to be only used for single family houses).

guhwhut 2y ago

[dead]

h0l0cube 2y ago
> Your straw man here is absurd. I've lived in an apartment for a few years, and those were issues for me. The stumbling block of having to wait for an elevator and walk across roads to get to a park was enough to stop me from going. It's not the same as simply walking outside the door. Other apartment buildings blocked out natural light, even onto the park, and I had just a view to one side of the building. All this in a city that had terrible weather to begin with.
- oblio 2y ago
  HackerNews, the bastion of logic. First of all, not having the energy to wait for an elevator (!!!) and walk across roads to get to a park sounds like depression. I hope that it was checked out. Or hey, maybe it was just the living circumstances but usually it's a complex thing, having to do with loneliness and general life issues. Secondly, urban environments are very varied outside the US. In Europe the most frequent apartment buildings are mid rises, 4-6 stories high, which can make for incredible environments. Shops everywhere, life everywhere. People going about their business, easy access to everything. Thirdly, that "touch grass" argument is ridiculous, even in the US. 90% of front and backyards I've seen are... just grass. I don't know if it's due to people or HOA being cheap or regulations, but there's a dearth of shrubs, hedges, trees, general greenery. You know, the type of green stuff that makes life worth living, not just sterile, manicured lawns. And those are exactly the things that aren't missing in most urban parks. Yes, you have to share the space, and that's fine. In most places not overrun by homeless people and drug addicts (much bigger problems in the US than in most other developed countries), parks are just lovely. And in many places multiple apartment buildings share the same common backyard, which is a lot larger than what a single family home in a suburb will have, and that will be a semi-private mini park, just for residents. Behaving like it's crazy for people to want to live in apartments, globally, is truly sad. Apartments don't require as much maintenance. They can offer nicer views, especially higher up. They are generally in walkable and bikeable areas with easy access to everything... The benefits are innumerable, especially for kids or the elderly. Edit: Oh, North America is particularly dastardly, for a developed region, in creating urban hell landscapes. I tried walking from the Las Vegas Strip to Downtown Las Vegas. I took the monorail to the end and then figured I'd walk the remaining distance, which is not huge (something like 4km). I turned around after about 20 minutes, even though the weather was awesome. It's incredibly how such wealth can create environment were an average person outside of a car is constantly under assault from noise, pollution, bad sidewalks full of debris, glass, etc. and the environment is so barren and devoid of beauty.
  - h0l0cube 2y ago
    > HackerNews, the bastion of logic. > First of all, not having the energy to wait for an elevator (!!!) and walk across roads to get to a park sounds like depression. I hope that it was checked out. HackerNews, the bastion of decorum. To use your unqualified depression diagnosis as a rhetorical device (let's be honest, this was not a sincere display of concern), is gobsmacking. And I'm sure you said this after pushing the downvote button with great moral conviction, surely because of concern for your fellow human being. Anyway, it's incredibly presumptuous that you'd think I didn't visit the outside world regularly. But certainly, living in a shoebox can be a recipe for depression, which can cause people to withdraw from the world. You're no doubt aware of hikikomori, a mental illness, strangely enough, most prevalent in one of the most dense population centers in the world. > In Europe the most frequent apartment buildings are mid rises, 4-6 stories high, which can make for incredible environments. Are you writing the brochure? I know what low-rises are. And I'll agree they're better than skyscrapers. The european ones in particular have central staircases instead of fire escapes, which is great, because the lifts are usually ancient, broken, and cramped. You'll get decent light, because zoning restrictions keep building heights within limits. You still won't get decent air flow, but they are sometimes passively ventilated owing to the age of the building. This is of course nothing like the sad cheap crap that's built today in modern city. But dream on about the rustic Parisian apartment. Have you at least lived an apartment lifestyle full-time for a few years, or is this just coming from your speculation of what it's like? If it's just speculation, please spare me.
    - oblio 2y ago
      > Have you at least lived an apartment lifestyle full-time for a few years, or is this just coming from your speculation of what it's like? If it's just speculation, please spare me. I've lived my entire lifetime in apartments, ranging from Eastern European panel blocks to ultra modern high energy efficiency ones. Heck, if we go the "spare me" arrogant route, based on my experience with apartments I can probably show you a thing or two (or two hundred...). I haven't even downvoted you, because I can't. It's some sort of HN mechanism. I'm fairly sure you're the one that downvoted my original comment, though. As usual for any type of housing, you need to choose where you live. Claiming that everyone wants to live in a single family house is, again, just sad. Single family houses in walkable and bikeable areas with easy access to daycares, kindergartens, schools, corner stores, super markets, pharmacies, coffee shops, cinemas, theatres, ... are insanely expensive and most people can't afford them, so the only relevant comparison is between: Single family houses in suburbs versus medium sized apartments in urban areas. In most of the rest of the world you can pay comparable rent (or comparable purchase price) for a decent apartment in a mid-to-high density area versus a decent house in a suburban area. > is gobsmacking So was your comment. You attacked my initial generic comment with a purely personal and emotional personal perspective. I think in real life terms it would be akin to what's called "emotional blackmail" ("look how hard it was for me in an apartment with bad weather" - WTF, did the apartment cause the bad weather?!!?? :-)))))) ). Anyway, this is useless. * * * Again, some people prefer to live in houses, some prefer to live in apartments. Both should be built to decent standards and no one should enforce most others to live in one single type (Europe is better than the US in this regard, in the US basically everyone is forced to live in single family houses in suburbs - something crazy like 80% of buildable land is legally zoned to be only used for single family houses).