3 ms·

It's expensive for irregular users. If I want to visit friends in Derby, coming from London, that's £81. For no good reason, a return ticket is £84. If I need

It's expensive for irregular users. If I want to visit friends in Derby, coming from London, that's £81. For no good reason, a return ticket is £84. If I need to travel at peak times, that's £123. Booked months in advance it might be £20, roughly what a bus ticket costs.

nprateem 2y ago
There is a good reason the return is only £3 more. It's so fare dodgers who buy a single have still basically paid the full fare.
- curiousObject 2y ago
  I don’t understand. Wouldn’t most fare dodgers buy no tickets, not just buy a single ticket for part of a return journey? What’s the reason that people try to dodge fares by buying a single ticket? Is it because they know when and where tickets are likely to be checked?
  - devnullbrain 2y ago
    I believe the PC is hinting about station barriers. Major stations need you to scan a ticket (or con a guard) to get off the platform or out of the station. Minor stations sometimes don't - and if it's your station you'll know. I think the real reason is less sensational: trains that go full in one direction still have to go back in the other direction whether they're full or not.
    - lozenge 2y ago
      The real reason is the government has set return fares and let private companies freely set the price of single fares.
blibble 2y ago
the return is 30p/mile, which is still considerably cheaper than driving (HMRC rate is 45p/mile, which constitutes insurance, capital cost, wear, petrol, etc) the single pricing is because they don't want to sell singles at all, but remember that return lets you come back upto a month later (your choice when)
- Symbiote 2y ago
  So two in the car is cheaper, and with the sunk costs of car ownership most people will find it cheaper to drive alone. Very often I don't want to return. I can fly to Manchester, visit family, take the train to Derby, visit friends, continue to London and fly home. I can't book advance tickets as the plane might be late, and I can't use a return journey ticket. It's all ridiculous, and I don't understand how anyone can defend it. Here in Denmark I can travel tomorrow (leaving at 02.35 if I want to, good luck trying that in England...) to Århus for about £50, any time of day. That's 300km, London to Derby is only 200km. Booked in advance I can roughly halve the fare, but I don't feel punished if I'm unable to commit to that.
  - blibble 2y ago
    > It's all ridiculous, and I don't understand how anyone can defend it. it's a ultimately a difference in philosophy UK governments over the past 30 years have decided that passengers should pay to run the railway, rather than the taxpayer out of general taxation if you look at the distribution of earnings of those who use the railways you could even call this a progressive policy meanwhile most European countries chose the other way round
protocolture 2y ago
Thats crazy. But maybe you guys need to adopt the inter suburban mindset. Those charges are what an Australian in NSW would expect to pay for a long distance rail service. Something with food service. I remember paying 120 bucks for a Casino to Newcastle years ago. But the NSW intersuburbans run on the same ticketing and pricing system as the suburban lines. Newcastle, which seems to be roughly the same distance from Sydney as Derby is from London, costs like 6 - 12 bucks. Walk on walk off, like any other train. The biggest issue they have is that the new rolling stock is garbage. The older trains were costing too much to maintain but they were quite comfortable for 12 bucks. Brisbane to Gympie is pretty cheap too tbh. Same deal, slightly different schedule but run as an intersuburban rather than another rail class.

nprateem 2y ago

There is a good reason the return is only £3 more. It's so fare dodgers who buy a single have still basically paid the full fare.

curiousObject 2y ago
I don’t understand. Wouldn’t most fare dodgers buy no tickets, not just buy a single ticket for part of a return journey? What’s the reason that people try to dodge fares by buying a single ticket? Is it because they know when and where tickets are likely to be checked?
- devnullbrain 2y ago
  I believe the PC is hinting about station barriers. Major stations need you to scan a ticket (or con a guard) to get off the platform or out of the station. Minor stations sometimes don't - and if it's your station you'll know. I think the real reason is less sensational: trains that go full in one direction still have to go back in the other direction whether they're full or not.
  - lozenge 2y ago
    The real reason is the government has set return fares and let private companies freely set the price of single fares.

blibble 2y ago

the return is 30p/mile, which is still considerably cheaper than driving (HMRC rate is 45p/mile, which constitutes insurance, capital cost, wear, petrol, etc) the single pricing is because they don't want to sell singles at all, but remember that return lets you come back upto a month later (your choice when)

Symbiote 2y ago
So two in the car is cheaper, and with the sunk costs of car ownership most people will find it cheaper to drive alone. Very often I don't want to return. I can fly to Manchester, visit family, take the train to Derby, visit friends, continue to London and fly home. I can't book advance tickets as the plane might be late, and I can't use a return journey ticket. It's all ridiculous, and I don't understand how anyone can defend it. Here in Denmark I can travel tomorrow (leaving at 02.35 if I want to, good luck trying that in England...) to Århus for about £50, any time of day. That's 300km, London to Derby is only 200km. Booked in advance I can roughly halve the fare, but I don't feel punished if I'm unable to commit to that.
- blibble 2y ago
  > It's all ridiculous, and I don't understand how anyone can defend it. it's a ultimately a difference in philosophy UK governments over the past 30 years have decided that passengers should pay to run the railway, rather than the taxpayer out of general taxation if you look at the distribution of earnings of those who use the railways you could even call this a progressive policy meanwhile most European countries chose the other way round

protocolture 2y ago

Thats crazy. But maybe you guys need to adopt the inter suburban mindset. Those charges are what an Australian in NSW would expect to pay for a long distance rail service. Something with food service. I remember paying 120 bucks for a Casino to Newcastle years ago. But the NSW intersuburbans run on the same ticketing and pricing system as the suburban lines. Newcastle, which seems to be roughly the same distance from Sydney as Derby is from London, costs like 6 - 12 bucks. Walk on walk off, like any other train. The biggest issue they have is that the new rolling stock is garbage. The older trains were costing too much to maintain but they were quite comfortable for 12 bucks. Brisbane to Gympie is pretty cheap too tbh. Same deal, slightly different schedule but run as an intersuburban rather than another rail class.