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Thanks to Gov. Chris Christie it's not gonna happen anytime soon: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyregion/08tunnel.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyr

Thanks to Gov. Chris Christie it's not gonna happen anytime soon: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyregion/08tunnel.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyregion/08tunnel.html

protomyth 14y ago
If you don't have the money, then you cannot go forward with this type of thing. Maybe after some years of getting back to balance on their budget, NJ can start big things again.
- melling 14y ago
  In the meantime, hundreds of thousands of people pay every day for the inefficient mass transportation system. There are good ways to spend money in bad times. See: Great Depression.
  - protomyth 14y ago
    And there are millions of children in NJ that need the government to not burden them with debt. NJ spends more than it takes in and needs to fix that first. Even if a family has another kid on the way, they still need to make sure they have budgeted properly before building an expansion on the house.
    - natrius 14y ago
      A government with a rising tax base can spend more than its revenue in perpetuity. That doesn't mean it's always a good idea, but thinking about government spending the way a household manages its spending leads to incorrect conclusions. There are millions of children in New Jersey that need their parents to be employed. Counter-cyclical spending helps to accomplish that, and if done wisely, it also acts as an investment from which those children will reap the benefits. Discourse about government spending these days is sadly devoid of numbers that indicate the right choice one way or the other. We don't run our businesses this way.
      - protomyth 14y ago
        I look at history and see how different administrations react to economic crisis. I see Harding & Coolidge vs Hoover's approach and the 1946 tax cuts as being pretty good guides. I don't see the stimulus spending by a R and a D as doing as much good.
    - melling 14y ago
      Governments take on debt all the time. The US Govt, for example, has balanced the budget only a handful of times in its history. Building better infrastructure that makes NJ more livable is money well spent. Appealing for the future of all the little children isn't a convincing way to make an argument. Btw, the US debt is now at 100% of GDP. I'd say every American kid already has a problem.
  - anamax 14y ago
    > There are good ways to spend money in bad times. See: Great Depression. Maybe, but that's not how "the great stimulus" money was spent. (And, as Obama learned, there are no shovel-ready projects.) At this point, your argument is basically "yes, we pissed away the last $1-2T, but this time, we'll get it right."
- natrius 14y ago
  People are lending money to governments at extremely low rates, and construction costs are extremely low. New Jersey's finances would've been fine if the project had proceeded. Paying down government debt during a recession is contrary to every economics textbook I've seen.
  - protomyth 14y ago
    Research the Harding & Coolidge vs Hoover approach. Betting that interest rates can be kept low is not a good policy. It is very much like betting on a high rate of return like many public pension funds.
    - jonknee 14y ago
      You can lock in rates through issuing bonds which is how these things are typically financed. Variable rate debt is fairly rare here.
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  That's the problem that financing addresses. Assuming that the activity you're financing will return future positive captureable value (farebox revenues, increased taxable business activity), then borrowing money now to pay for current activities ensuring ability to pay back the loan makes perfect sense. Note that that assumption of future benefit may not hold out, but if it does, failing to undertake the financing is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
- jbooth 14y ago
  If you're getting free money from the feds, you absolutely should do it. Christie is alright in general but in that instance he's just burnishing his republican creds by the flashy turndown of federal money.
  - protomyth 14y ago
    It's not free money, someone paid taxes on that. We need more governors to stop taking "free" money from the Fed. If we don't take some pain now, we won't have a later.
    - jbooth 14y ago
      Ever heard of a sunk cost? From the perspective of the NJ governor, it's free money.

Thanks to Gov. Chris Christie it's not gonna happen anytime soon: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyregion/08tunnel.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyregion/08tunnel.html

protomyth 14y ago

If you don't have the money, then you cannot go forward with this type of thing. Maybe after some years of getting back to balance on their budget, NJ can start big things again.

melling 14y ago
In the meantime, hundreds of thousands of people pay every day for the inefficient mass transportation system. There are good ways to spend money in bad times. See: Great Depression.
- protomyth 14y ago
  And there are millions of children in NJ that need the government to not burden them with debt. NJ spends more than it takes in and needs to fix that first. Even if a family has another kid on the way, they still need to make sure they have budgeted properly before building an expansion on the house.
  - natrius 14y ago
    A government with a rising tax base can spend more than its revenue in perpetuity. That doesn't mean it's always a good idea, but thinking about government spending the way a household manages its spending leads to incorrect conclusions. There are millions of children in New Jersey that need their parents to be employed. Counter-cyclical spending helps to accomplish that, and if done wisely, it also acts as an investment from which those children will reap the benefits. Discourse about government spending these days is sadly devoid of numbers that indicate the right choice one way or the other. We don't run our businesses this way.
    - protomyth 14y ago
      I look at history and see how different administrations react to economic crisis. I see Harding & Coolidge vs Hoover's approach and the 1946 tax cuts as being pretty good guides. I don't see the stimulus spending by a R and a D as doing as much good.
  - melling 14y ago
    Governments take on debt all the time. The US Govt, for example, has balanced the budget only a handful of times in its history. Building better infrastructure that makes NJ more livable is money well spent. Appealing for the future of all the little children isn't a convincing way to make an argument. Btw, the US debt is now at 100% of GDP. I'd say every American kid already has a problem.
- anamax 14y ago
  > There are good ways to spend money in bad times. See: Great Depression. Maybe, but that's not how "the great stimulus" money was spent. (And, as Obama learned, there are no shovel-ready projects.) At this point, your argument is basically "yes, we pissed away the last $1-2T, but this time, we'll get it right."
natrius 14y ago
People are lending money to governments at extremely low rates, and construction costs are extremely low. New Jersey's finances would've been fine if the project had proceeded. Paying down government debt during a recession is contrary to every economics textbook I've seen.
- protomyth 14y ago
  Research the Harding & Coolidge vs Hoover approach. Betting that interest rates can be kept low is not a good policy. It is very much like betting on a high rate of return like many public pension funds.
  - jonknee 14y ago
    You can lock in rates through issuing bonds which is how these things are typically financed. Variable rate debt is fairly rare here.
dredmorbius 14y ago
That's the problem that financing addresses. Assuming that the activity you're financing will return future positive captureable value (farebox revenues, increased taxable business activity), then borrowing money now to pay for current activities ensuring ability to pay back the loan makes perfect sense. Note that that assumption of future benefit may not hold out, but if it does, failing to undertake the financing is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
jbooth 14y ago
If you're getting free money from the feds, you absolutely should do it. Christie is alright in general but in that instance he's just burnishing his republican creds by the flashy turndown of federal money.
- protomyth 14y ago
  It's not free money, someone paid taxes on that. We need more governors to stop taking "free" money from the Fed. If we don't take some pain now, we won't have a later.
  - jbooth 14y ago
    Ever heard of a sunk cost? From the perspective of the NJ governor, it's free money.