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The LLM capabilities/usefulness debate seems so ridiculously polarized. On the one hand you have a gullible C-suite gulping down the "on the brink of super-inte

The LLM capabilities/usefulness debate seems so ridiculously polarized. On the one hand you have a gullible C-suite gulping down the "on the brink of super-intelligence" cool-aid making plans to ditch 80% of their workforce in the next 2 years. On the other side you have the Ivory Tower academics still parroting the "stochastic parrot" good for nothing memes. The serious middle ground, appreciating the new tools for what they can offer but while aware of the limitations and fitting them into useful slots in the business-processes, feels very underrepresented. I'm interacting on this with lots of people on both sides of this isle and am constantly amazed by the almost caricatural shallowness of understanding on either side.

shandor 2y ago
This same phenomenon seems to happen often. My go-to explanation is that the "serious middle ground" you mentioned is actually using the new tools doing some actual work, just a little more efficiently, without much fuss. That usually does not make it into the headlines, and doesn't "drive engagement metrics" or whatever, so it also isn't in the interest of the news to push that middle ground narrative, and so we get the ridiculous polarization.
mattgreenrocks 2y ago
It's an intellectual wasteland, to be sure. I think the problem is it became yet another thing to take a side on, which inevitably ends up becoming an end in and of itself.
jaredcwhite 2y ago
The academics are correct, and they are very serious. Your "serious middle ground" is itself a rather extreme viewpoint, and that's just not how this debate should be defined. Here's how I'd define it: * Extreme pro-LLM: sure these tools are ethical, super useful, and should be adopted by virtually everyone into most workflows. * Moderate middle ground: these tools are largely unethical and extremely problematic on socio-economic & philosophical grounds—we should publicise these numerous issues and craft strict regulation around their use. * Extreme anti-LLM: we should sabotage the data centers powering these existential threats to humanity and the environment. If governments won't outlaw the technology, we'll take matters into our own hands. FWIW, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between moderate and extreme anti-LLM.
- stnmtn 2y ago
  I sympathize but there has not been a single time in history in which people anti-new technology have ever halted progress or stopped it - once the cat is out of the bag, all you can do is deal with the cat, you can't put the cat back in.
  - jaredcwhite 2y ago
    Car-free & car-limited urban centers around the world would disagree with you. Smoking-free indoor establishments in many corners of the globe would also disagree with you. I can name numerous other examples. People can make choices to put cats back in bags. They've already done it.
    - jemmyw 2y ago
      Not really. What cats did they return to bags? The cats/cars are still out there, prowling around. The car limited urban centres are still surrounded by suburban areas. I used to live in Copenhagen and we were the only people in our little suburb without a car. We had the most cats though. What you're describing is just dealing with the cats being around. Personal motorised transport isn't going away because there are areas where it looks different (electric bikes, for example). And I think that's the point - we have LLMs now, they're not going away, so we have to live with them one way or another.
    - stnmtn 2y ago
      Cigarettes aren't technology so they aren't applicable here, and do you think you would classify cars as "being put back in the bag"
  - ben_w 2y ago
    We do put metaphorical cats in bags, but we do so by releasing metaphorical dogs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Was_an_Old_Lady_Who_Swallowed_a_Fly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Was_an_Old_Lady_Who_Swal...

shandor 2y ago

This same phenomenon seems to happen often. My go-to explanation is that the "serious middle ground" you mentioned is actually using the new tools doing some actual work, just a little more efficiently, without much fuss. That usually does not make it into the headlines, and doesn't "drive engagement metrics" or whatever, so it also isn't in the interest of the news to push that middle ground narrative, and so we get the ridiculous polarization.

mattgreenrocks 2y ago

It's an intellectual wasteland, to be sure. I think the problem is it became yet another thing to take a side on, which inevitably ends up becoming an end in and of itself.

jaredcwhite 2y ago

The academics are correct, and they are very serious. Your "serious middle ground" is itself a rather extreme viewpoint, and that's just not how this debate should be defined. Here's how I'd define it: * Extreme pro-LLM: sure these tools are ethical, super useful, and should be adopted by virtually everyone into most workflows. * Moderate middle ground: these tools are largely unethical and extremely problematic on socio-economic & philosophical grounds—we should publicise these numerous issues and craft strict regulation around their use. * Extreme anti-LLM: we should sabotage the data centers powering these existential threats to humanity and the environment. If governments won't outlaw the technology, we'll take matters into our own hands. FWIW, I'm somewhere on the spectrum between moderate and extreme anti-LLM.

stnmtn 2y ago
I sympathize but there has not been a single time in history in which people anti-new technology have ever halted progress or stopped it - once the cat is out of the bag, all you can do is deal with the cat, you can't put the cat back in.
- jaredcwhite 2y ago
  Car-free & car-limited urban centers around the world would disagree with you. Smoking-free indoor establishments in many corners of the globe would also disagree with you. I can name numerous other examples. People can make choices to put cats back in bags. They've already done it.
  - jemmyw 2y ago
    Not really. What cats did they return to bags? The cats/cars are still out there, prowling around. The car limited urban centres are still surrounded by suburban areas. I used to live in Copenhagen and we were the only people in our little suburb without a car. We had the most cats though. What you're describing is just dealing with the cats being around. Personal motorised transport isn't going away because there are areas where it looks different (electric bikes, for example). And I think that's the point - we have LLMs now, they're not going away, so we have to live with them one way or another.
  - stnmtn 2y ago
    Cigarettes aren't technology so they aren't applicable here, and do you think you would classify cars as "being put back in the bag"
- ben_w 2y ago
  We do put metaphorical cats in bags, but we do so by releasing metaphorical dogs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Was_an_Old_Lady_Who_Swallowed_a_Fly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Was_an_Old_Lady_Who_Swal...